CSA did not Exist

ebg12

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#1
The Southern people were in rebellion in the United States between 1861 to 1865.
The Southern States were never sovereign from the Union.
Jefferson Davis and Robert E. Lee were United States Citizens in defiance to United States Law.
Jefferson Davis was not a President of a sovereign nation because the CSA did not exist.
Robert E. Lee was not a commissioned officer in a sovereign nation's army because the CSA did not exist.
Treason trials of both Jefferson Davis and Robert E. Lee was not in the best interest of the United States after the civil war.
 

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ebg12

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#3
Had the trappings of a nation. Geographic area, political system, a legal system, and a military sufficient to enforce political will.
but so did other rebellions in others countries now and the past had, but that does not make them sovereign. What about being recognized as a nation by other nations. World opinion counts?
 
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#4
The Southern people were in rebellion in the United States between 1861 to 1865.
The Southern States were never sovereign from the Union.
Jefferson Davis and Robert E. Lee were United States Citizens in defiance to United States Law.
Jefferson Davis was not a President of a sovereign nation because the CSA did not exist.
Robert E. Lee was not a commissioned officer in a sovereign nation's army because the CSA did not exist.
Treason trials of both Jefferson Davis and Robert E. Lee was not in the best interest of the United States after the civil war.
The 13 Colonies were not a sovereign nation, but was/were in defiance of British law...ect ect ect..
George Washington was nnot a commissioned officer as the United States did not exist..blahblah


Simply put, "to the victor belong the spoils"...New York Senator William L. Marcy
 

ebg12

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#5
The 13 Colonies were not a sovereign nation, but was/were in defiance of British law...ect ect ect..
George Washington was nnot a commissioned officer as the United States did not exist..blahblah


Simply put, "to the victor belong the spoils"...New York Senator William L. Marcy
might makes right...what makes independence?
 

Kelly

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#8
The Northern people waged a lawless international war of aggression against the Confederate States between 1861 and 1865.
The Confederate States were thoroughly sovereign from the Union.
Jefferson Davis and Robert E. Lee were Confederate States Citizens in perfect harmony with Confederate States and international Law.
Jefferson Davis was the President of a sovereign nation because the CSA was under every definition a sovereign and independent country.
Robert E. Lee was commissioned General Officer in a sovereign nation's army because the CSA existed under every definition as a sovereign state.
Treason trials of both Jefferson Davis and Robert E. Lee were absolutely not in the best interest of the United States after the civil war because there was no hope of ever obtaining a conviction.
 
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#9
Hoping someone will be gentle here....I looked up the definition of sovereign nation on several sites, including law sites. By the general definition it looks as if the CSA could well have been sovereign. I did not see anything about having to be recognized. Can someone point me to something on that. Straight up question, trying to learn, not being a trixter
 

ebg12

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#10
The Northern people waged a lawless international war of aggression against the Confederate States between 1861 and 1865.
The Confederate States were thoroughly sovereign from the Union.
Jefferson Davis and Robert E. Lee were Confederate States Citizens in perfect harmony with Confederate States and international Law.
Jefferson Davis was the President of a sovereign nation because the CSA was under every definition a sovereign and independent country.
Robert E. Lee was commissioned General Officer in a sovereign nation's army because the CSA existed under every definition as a sovereign state.
Treason trials of both Jefferson Davis and Robert E. Lee were absolutely not in the best interest of the United States after the civil war because there was no hope of ever obtaining a conviction.
I don't agree except for your last statement.
Though many people wanted treason trials for both of them, rebel sympathy would have been convictions impossible contrary to the evidence.
 

WJC

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#11
The Southern people were in rebellion in the United States between 1861 to 1865.
The Southern States were never sovereign from the Union.
Jefferson Davis and Robert E. Lee were United States Citizens in defiance to United States Law.
Jefferson Davis was not a President of a sovereign nation because the CSA did not exist.
Robert E. Lee was not a commissioned officer in a sovereign nation's army because the CSA did not exist.
Treason trials of both Jefferson Davis and Robert E. Lee was not in the best interest of the United States after the civil war.
A good summary, certainly of the way Lincoln viewed it: it was the basis for his policies.
 

Kelly

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#12
I don't agree except for your last statement.
Though many people wanted treason trials for both of them, rebel sympathy would have been convictions impossible contrary to the evidence.
Sympathy or not, the constitution does not prohibit secession. The cause of the U.S. would have been exposed for the enormous illegality that it was.
 

ebg12

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#13
Hoping someone will be gentle here....I looked up the definition of sovereign nation on several sites, including law sites. By the general definition it looks as if the CSA could well have been sovereign. I did not see anything about having to be recognized. Can someone point me to something on that. Straight up question, trying to learn, not being a trixter
the word "could have" is the key...as opposed to the American Revolution and the word "did". I think you have to win before being accepted. " Might makes right' in the world of nation building.
 
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#15
the word "could have" is the key...as opposed to the American Revolution and the word "did". I think you have to win before being accepted. " Might makes right' in the world of nation building.
Yes, without question if they won. Curious about those 4 years, that by definition had most of the sovereign characteristics.
 

WJC

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#16
The Northern people waged a lawless international war of aggression against the Confederate States between 1861 and 1865.
Only if one assumes that the so-called 'Confederate States of America' was a sovereign, independent nation. No country in the world recognized them as such.
On the other hand, Gary Gallagher teaches his conclusion that for practical purposes (not for legal reasons), the so-called 'Confederate States of America' was independent.
So long as we keep those distinctions in mind I believe both describe the status of the rebel 'government'.
 

Kelly

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#18
Foreign recognition has nothing to do with the existence of a state. States recognize one anther out of interest, not out of any legal obligation. There is no law requiring one state to recognize any other state. It is purely voluntary and again, has no bearing on the question of political independence. None whatsoever.
 
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WJC

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#20
Foreign recognition has nothing to do with the existence of a state. States recognize one anther out of interest, not out of any legal obligation. There is no law requiring one state to recognize any other state. it is purely voluntary and agin, has no bearing on the question of political independence. None whatsoever.
Except that it does. Until someone 'invites you into the club'. you're not a member.
 



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