Irishtom29
2nd Lieutenant
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2008
- Location
- Wheaton Illinois
Once again, why do we have to revive a long dead conversation.
Why not? That’s what we do around here, talk about this kind of thing.
Once again, why do we have to revive a long dead conversation.
There were other ways to defend slavery. But the plantation interests would have to make some concessions. Then the Republicans would have to make some concessions. The Republicans were looking for votes on their western development policies. The plantation interests could have bargained for extra time to implement a New Jersey type plan for emancipation.I wouldn't have even let it come to war I like Robert Toombs advice to Davis before Sumter "Mr. President, at this time it is suicide, murder, and will lose us every friend at the North. You will wantonly strike a hornet's nest which extends from mountain to ocean, and legions now quiet will swarm out and sting us to death. It is unnecessary; it puts us in the wrong; it is fatal."
Robert Toombs - A great man to often overlooked
Toombs would not have agreed. But he would have agreed that secession was unlikely to be unopposed.To hell with defending slavery -
We do not need to continue this conversation its been months since we have rambled on nonsense, half-truths, and lies by other users (no offense to them just offering my criticism).Why not? That’s what we do around here, talk about this kind of thing.
The plantation interests could have bargained for extra time to implement a New Jersey type plan for emancipation.
We do not need to continue this conversation its been months since we have rambled on nonsense, half-truths, and lies by other users (no offense to them just offering my criticism).
Evidently some don’t accept your posts as ex cathedra.
I must say I'm surprised to see this thread is back.
One thing I would like to add, seeing the "climate" here with some, is that the fact that the Confederacy was capable of winning, doesn't discount the valor and tenacity of Union soldiers. Saying the Confederacy never had a chance does.
I bring that up because the tone of more than a few posts discount the Confederate's chances out of hand as pipedreams. To be adamant that the Union would have won no matter what discounts what they had to suffer by saying the enemy they fought was worthless. No I'm sure many a Union soldier, more than a few officers, and not to mention politicians would have said they faced a grave threat that they didn't know the outcome, and had to overcome many, many obstacles to win the victory. Being disdainful of the Confederacy's chances and saying they never could have possibly won, is a proverbial slap in the face to the Union and what they had to endure to win, mainly because the Confederacy came very close more than a few times, as I pointed out months ago the War could have ended very differently.
I know a little off topic, and not exactly my place to say, but looking at this thread since I left it before, I felt it should be pointed out.
No offense to you, you have been already proven wrong about West Virginia recruitment ratio and the attitudes of the planters on a New Jersey-style emancipation. Generally speaking, I have explained my views on the border states which had their own political and economic situations different from one another not just simply coercion as you claim.The United States had to have a secure hold on Maryland. Without that they would have had to move the capital away from Washington, D.C.
They had to have the western counties of Virginia in order for the transportation routes between east and west to be secure.
They had to have Missouri, which controlled the Mississippi and Missouri rivers, as well as the geographic access to the far west.
Unfortunately for the Confederates, all these areas were going to be controlled by the dominance of the United States economy and the dominance of the northern population. When it was just a matter of quickly organized, untrained units showing up, 90% of success in the opinion of the famous New York comedian, the United States was going to be able to hold on to the border areas. It was less than they hoped for, but included three of the main cities in states that allowed coerced labor. It also included numerous small towns like Wheeling, Covington Ky and Newton Ky, which contained a large potential military age population.
Based on that preponderance, the 36 degree 30 minute line could have been reinstated as the permanent boundary between paid labor and coerced labor. Some settlement to compensate Delaware, Maryland, Kentucky and Missouri for their slaves would have to been worked out, but that was possible.