Confederate Soldiers are legal veterans

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#1
Via John Fulton... Confederate Soldiers are legal veterans... By Public Law 85-425, May 23, 1958 (H.R. 358) 72 Statute 133 states – “(3) (e) for the purpose of this section, and section 433, the term ‘veteran’ includes a person who served in the military or naval forces of the Confederate States of America during the Civil War, and the term ‘active, military or naval service’ includes active service in such forces.” As a result of this law the last surviving Confederate Veteran received a U.S. Military pension until his death in 1959, and from that day until present, descendants of Confederate veterans have been able to receive military monuments to place on graves from the Veteran’s Administration for their ancestors. A Confederate Veteran should therefore be treated with the same honor and dignity of any other American veteran.
 

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#3
Via John Fulton... Confederate Soldiers are legal veterans... By Public Law 85-425, May 23, 1958 (H.R. 358) 72 Statute 133 states – “(3) (e) for the purpose of this section, and section 433, the term ‘veteran’ includes a person who served in the military or naval forces of the Confederate States of America during the Civil War, and the term ‘active, military or naval service’ includes active service in such forces.” As a result of this law the last surviving Confederate Veteran received a U.S. Military pension until his death in 1959, and from that day until present, descendants of Confederate veterans have been able to receive military monuments to place on graves from the Veteran’s Administration for their ancestors. A Confederate Veteran should therefore be treated with the same honor and dignity of any other American veteran.
May 23, 1958. So who was the Senate Majority Leader and who was the Speaker of the House on that date? Not to mention in charge of the Senate Armed Services Committe? I'm mildly surprised they didn't do it sooner.
 

CSA Today

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#4
May 23, 1958. So who was the Senate Majority Leader and who was the Speaker of the House on that date? Not to mention in charge of the Senate Armed Services Committe? I'm mildly surprised they didn't do it sooner.
Me too, say about when Southerners became a significant percentage of those fighting in US wars.
 

jgoodguy

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Via John Fulton... Confederate Soldiers are legal veterans... By Public Law 85-425, May 23, 1958 (H.R. 358) 72 Statute 133 states – “(3) (e) for the purpose of this section, and section 433, the term ‘veteran’ includes a person who served in the military or naval forces of the Confederate States of America during the Civil War, and the term ‘active, military or naval service’ includes active service in such forces.” As a result of this law the last surviving Confederate Veteran received a U.S. Military pension until his death in 1959, and from that day until present, descendants of Confederate veterans have been able to receive military monuments to place on graves from the Veteran’s Administration for their ancestors. A Confederate Veteran should therefore be treated with the same honor and dignity of any other American veteran.
1 CSA veterans are veterans by definition, however anything beyond that is a silly word game.
2. CSA veterans are not US veterans, the law is careful in keeping them separate.

"A Confederate Veteran should therefore be treated with the same honor and dignity of any other American veteran."
There is no legal justification in doing this. It is asserting something without a basis in law.
 
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#6
Who would have thought that a Confederate veteran could be any other than a US veteran?

Really jgoodguy? Please show us where it says that they should be kept seperate.
I would think the basis in law was Public Law 85-425, May 23, 1958 (HR 358) 72 Statute 133.
 
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jgoodguy

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#7
Since traitors is going to arise soon. Punishment for traitors end with their death. No punishment falls to descendents and any property confiscated is returned to the heirs.

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.
Also the Act of June 6, 1898, 30 Stat. 432, ch. 389, removed all disabilities under the 14th amendment and restored complete rights and citizenship to all former rebels.

As moderator: Any loose traitor talk is going to be deleted without warning.
 
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#9
Via John Fulton... Confederate Soldiers are legal veterans... By Public Law 85-425, May 23, 1958 (H.R. 358) 72 Statute 133 states – “(3) (e) for the purpose of this section, and section 433, the term ‘veteran’ includes a person who served in the military or naval forces of the Confederate States of America during the Civil War, and the term ‘active, military or naval service’ includes active service in such forces.” As a result of this law the last surviving Confederate Veteran received a U.S. Military pension until his death in 1959, and from that day until present, descendants of Confederate veterans have been able to receive military monuments to place on graves from the Veteran’s Administration for their ancestors. A Confederate Veteran should therefore be treated with the same honor and dignity of any other American veteran.
Before 1958, were CSA veterans considered USA veterans, and receive pensions from the US government?

- Alan
 
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#13
"A Confederate Veteran should therefore be treated with the same honor and dignity of any other American veteran."

This seems very clear that the distinction should remain clear. They were not American veterans they were Confederate veterans with benefits.
 

jgoodguy

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#14
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/STATUTE-72/pdf/STATUTE-72-Pg133.pdf

Note that the US veteran and CSA veterans are kept separate in the (text of) law.
Their benefits would be the same as if they were US veterans, but they are never considered as the same.

AN ACT
To increase the monthly rates of pension payable to widows and former widows
of deceased veterans of the Spanish-American War, Civil War, Indian War,
and Mexican War, and provide pensions to widows of veterans who served
in the military or naval forces of the Confederate States of America during
the Civil War.
For the purpose of this section, and section 433, the term
'veteran' includes a person who served in the military or naval forces
of the Confederate States of America
during the Civil War, and the
term 'active, military or naval service' includes active service in such
forces."
SEC. 410. The Administrator shall pay to each person who served
in the military or naval forces of the Confederate States of America
during the Civil War a monthly pension in the same amounts and
subject to the same conditions as would have been applicable to such
person under the laws in effect on December 31, 1957, if his service
m such forces had been service in the military or naval service of the
United States."
 

AndyHall

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Before 1958, were CSA veterans considered USA veterans, and receive pensions from the US government?
I believe pensions for Confederate veterans, their widows, and dependents were entirely left to the states until then. The federal government had, however, become increasingly intertwined with Confederate veterans' issues. Confederate pensions were generally reviewed by local boards or commissions, that frequently wrote to the War Department requesting verification of an applicant's service. The War Department then held all former Confederate military records, and it was the War Department that created the system of cross-indexed cards documenting each former soldier's service. (These are the well-known Compiled Service Records, or CSRs, that we use today.)

As early as 1906, the federal government began supplying headstones for Confederate veterans buried in specific plots. By 1929, this was expanded to include Confederate graves in private cemeteries, as well.

The question of permanently marking graves of Confederate deceased in national cemeteries and Confederate burial plots resulted in the Act of March 9, 1906 (P.L. 38, 59th Cong., Chap. 631), authorizing the furnishing of headstones for the graves of Confederates who died, primarily in Union prison camps and were buried in federal cemeteries.

Congress adopted the same size and material for Confederate headstones as headstones for Civil-Spanish War deceased. The design varied in that the top was pointed instead of rounded and the shield was omitted. Apocryphally, it has been said that the pointed top was adopted to prevent "Yankees" from sitting on Confederate headstones. An act on Feb. 26, 1929 (70th Cong., Chap. 324), authorized the furnishing of this type of stone for graves in private cemeteries, as well.

On May 26, 1930, the War Department implemented regulations for Confederate headstones that also authorized the inscription of the Confederate Cross of Honor in a small circle on the front face of the stone above the standard inscription of the soldier's name, rank, company and regiment.
So I would argue that the 1958 legislation recognizing former Confederates as veterans under federal law, is not so much a landmark turning point in recognition of those men, but the last, final step in a process that had been going on incrementally for more than fifty years.
 
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jgoodguy

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#18
Bottom line
1. Legally CSA veterans are not US veterans.
2. No CSA veteran received any veteran benefits from the US government. Their widows received a pension.
 
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#19
I believe pensions (for veterans, their widows and dependents) were entirely left to the states until then. The federal government had, however, become increasingly intertwined with Confederate veterans' issues. Confederate pensions were generally reviewed by local boards or commissions, that frequently wrote to the War Department requesting verification of an applicant's service. The War Department then held all former Confederate military records, and it was the War Department that created the system of cross-indexed cards documenting each former soldier's service. (These are the well-known Compiled Service Records, or CSRs, that we use today.) I have also seen correspondence indicating that the federal government was supplying headstones for Confederate pensioners in the 1920s or 1930s, although I don't know the administrative details of that.
The states were responsible as you say but I wouldn't be surprised if federal government money was allocated to those states for that purpose. I'll check into it.
 


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