Restricted Confederate Monument Vandalized

Rob9641

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I have never denied they see it as a hate symbol, what matters to me is that I do not honor it as a hate symbol, I do not celebrate it as a hate symbol. Others disagree and I understand their reason, in this land of the United States can I not also celebrate my Confederate Heritage, can I not honor my Confederate Heritage ?

Taking it down from government property and buildings I have said more times than I can count, that I agree with that, but they have no right to eradicate my Confederate Heritage and that is what they are attempting to do.

By vandalizing Confederate Memorials and Monuments, requesting their removal, requesting street names, park names, military installation names, building names to be changed, and now even requesting that bodies be moved out of graves. Their attack is a hate filled attack upon my Confederate Heritage. At times I feel they are not so much offended as they are seeking revenge. There is a fine line there.

Slavery was an evil, evil institution and I understand their being offended, but to eradicate my Confederate Heritage is that right?

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Respectfully,
William

Very thoughtful response, thank you for it. I understand and agree with much of what you said.

Nobody can eradicate your Confederate heritage so long as you celebrate it. As long as you live, there will be people who will want to celebrate it with you. Even a lot of us here who are not interested in "celebrating" it are interested in learning about it and talking about it, including the aspects that we respect.

But yes, there is hatred for the Confederacy and will be so long as celebrating it is done in public places that are inhabited now by people who have as much reason for hating it as you do for celebrating it and yes, a lot of those people want some kind of revenge (not all of them, mind you, or you'd see a lot more trouble than we are seeing). That's just a fact. You may not like it, but think about how you feel now and does it not give you some insight into why those who hate the Confederate symbols hate them?

Changing street names and park names happens all the time for various reasons. They are public places and exist in neighborhoods that modern people inhabit. If those communities don't want to commemorate people who lived 150 years ago and enslaved and oppressed their ancestors, why should they have to? Heck, if they want to rename Ulysses S. Grant Street, why shouldn't they be able to? In another 50 years, the people there may want to rename it yet again. Why shouldn't they be able to? Communities change. The public aspects of those communities are going to change, too.

Commemorate the Confederacy as you see fit and your heritage will not die, no matter how many street names or park names change, and quit worrying about the things that are just not going to happen. Do you really think Richmond is going to come up with the money to remove all the statues or dig up Hollywood Cemetery?

I can't even get anybody interested in moving AP Hill's body out of that traffic circle (having him there IMO is a nastier indignity than a spray-painted monument and even I, a diehard Yankee, am offended that he has to rest with cars and trucks circling within feet of him all the time).
 

James N.

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...Commemorate the Confederacy as you see fit and your heritage will not die, no matter how many street names or park names change, and quit worrying about the things that are just not going to happen. Do you really think Richmond is going to come up with the money to remove all the statues or dig up Hollywood Cemetery?

I can't even get anybody interested in moving AP Hill's body out of that traffic circle (having him there IMO is a nastier indignity than a spray-painted monument and even I, a diehard Yankee, am offended that he has to rest with cars and trucks circling within feet of him all the time).

Interestingly, that's not unlike what happened in Monroe, Mich., to another prominent statue, as I reported here after my visit there last year (there was no body involved in this move though): Statue representing General George Armstrong Custer at the Battle of Gettysburg, erected by the State of Michigan and dedicated in 1910 by President William Howard Taft. Originally, it was located near the courthouse in what became a traffic circle, and was moved to this location between another major intersection and the River Raisin.

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R. Alex Raines

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That's totally up to police and the City of Charleston. They know that there are vandals there, supposedly they were going to patrol around monuments. Edited by Chellers.
Wow. Just wow. The level of 'dialogue' in this thread is shameful and, even more upsetting, filled with Edited by Chellers fallacious reasoning. But dig. Here is generally how law enforcement priorities go - A) Things posing an immediate risk of physical harm to the populace (murder, sexual assault, active shooters, domestic violence situations, and similar things), B) I'm actually not feeling like writing an exhaustive list, ZZ) non-violent property crime. The reason these priorities exist is because there are limited resources available. But does anyone see the irony with this outrage that I see?
 
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E_just_E

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Wow. Just wow. The level of 'dialogue' in this thread is shameful and, even more upsetting, filled with Edited by Chellers fallacious reasoning. But dig. Here is generally how law enforcement priorities go - A) Things posing an immediate risk of physical harm to the populace (murder, sexual assault, active shooters, domestic violence situations, and similar things), B) I'm actually not feeling like writing an exhaustive list, ZZ) non-violent property crime. The reason these priorities exist is because there are limited resources available. But does anyone see the irony with this outrage that I see?

Ummmmm

I suspect that there were some traffic tickets issued today there. Methinks that speeding to go to work or parking in the wrong spot is a less sociopathic trait than defacing a monument, especially at times like these. I am not talking about murders. I am talking about traffic tickets. Not felony-level crimes. That City and that Police department should have made that a priority over traffic violations. That's all I am saying. Period.
 
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chellers

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The level of 'dialogue' in this thread is shameful and, even more upsetting, filled with idiocy and fallacious reasoning
To Mr. Raines and All Members: Please use the "Report" option when you find a post that is inappropriate, off topic, insulting, disrespectful, etc. The "Report" option is in blue letters and located just below every post. Please use it.

Respectfully,
Chellers
 

kevikens

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I wish we had a well respected by everyone leader, an elder statesman type, who could go on TV and speak, gently, to get people calmed down and provide a bit of breathing room so that we could quietly sit down and work this out in a reasoned manner. There need not be any law breaking over this but I am starting to fear that with passions inflamed by impassioned rhetoric, that incendiaries are going to say or do things that could damage more than banners or statues. What we could use right now is a fireside chat from FDR or a resurrected Great Pacificator like Henry Clay.
 

18thVirginia

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Now the National Cathedral is being targeted.

That's kind of an odd way to put it. The Dean of the Cathedral is suggesting the replacement of two windows that have Confederate flags in them. The windows are of Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson. They were placed in the Cathedral after a lobbying campaign by the UDC in 1953.

Seems like since it's the Church's property, they can do what they want to.
 

R. Alex Raines

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I wish we had a well respected by everyone leader, an elder statesman type, who could go on TV and speak, gently, to get people calmed down and provide a bit of breathing room so that we could quietly sit down and work this out in a reasoned manner. There need not be any law breaking over this but I am starting to fear that with passions inflamed by impassioned rhetoric, that incendiaries are going to say or do things that could damage more than banners or statues. What we could use right now is a fireside chat from FDR or a resurrected Great Pacificator like Henry Clay.
You mean like the President of the United States, ***edit by Lnwlf: modern politics*** The same fellow who gave the Charleston eulogy?
 
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kevikens

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That's kind of an odd way to put it. The Dean of the Cathedral is suggesting the replacement of two windows that have Confederate flags in them. The windows are of Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson. They were placed in the Cathedral after a lobbying campaign by the UDC in 1953.

Seems like since it's the Church's property, they can do what they want to.
But perhaps a better way to go would be to ADD a couple windows with Union figures, say Shaw of the 54th and maybe Harriet Tubman. That way worshippers can be reminded of the costs of war and pray mightily that nothing like this ever happens again.
 

18thVirginia

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The women of the UDC were unsuccessful in getting an Aunt Jemina style monument in Washington, D. C. to celebrate the loyalty of black women in being slave mammies, so they started lobbying for windows honoring two of the military leaders of the Confederacy as spiritual leaders. The windows were installed in 1953, just before the momentous Brown v. Board of Education decision of 1954.

I don't know that we need to continue to honor that tradition of reinforcing Confederate concepts of white supremacy in the National Cathedral, where state funerals of presidents and all kinds of national prayer events are held. The Dean has no specific proposals, but I believe suggestions have been made to remove and then feature the windows in an historical exhibit, but not to continue to hold up 2 Confederate leaders whose foremost mission was the ongoing enslavement of others as "exemplary Christian gentlemen." I would agree with the Dean.
 
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southern blue

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http://www.wjla.com/articles/2015/0...al-of-confederate-soldier-statue--115137.html

Calls for removal of Confederate Statue in Leesburg VA. That's hitting close to home. The one in Winchester is in front of the 'old' Courthouse which is now the Civil War Museum so they can't use the 'government building' argument but it IS in a very public place on the downtown walking mall.

There is one in front of the Courthouse in Clarke County but the African American population there is so tiny I don't know if there will be much of a stir over that. There is another one in the Old Chapel Cemetery but that is mostly dedicated to the members of the Stonewall Brigade. I can't imagine anyone having a problem with it being in that particular location.
 
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