coehorn mortar id help

bigiron44

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Joined
Oct 30, 2008
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kentucky
mortar.jpg

This marking was found when the tube was removed from the sled for shipping. Bore is 2.75", weight of tube about 90 pounds. Sled has 4 iron handles, total weight about 150 pounds. I cannot find anything on this maker. Please help if you can and thanks kindly.
 
Dear BigIron44;

First, welcome to CivilWarTalk Forms.

There are several gentlemen who are wonderful resources when it comes to ordnance and weapons. I hope they will take a peek in and help with your inquiry.

I have looked at The Official Records of the Rebellion and not a hit was found on the "Meyers" from Bridgeton, NJ. Yet, Plate #173 has the "Coehorn Mortar." (Cute little fella)--Union Ordnance 1861-1865.
-------------------------------------
O.R.-- SERIES I--VOLUME XXVIII/1 [S# 46]
Operations On The Coasts Of South Carolina And Georgia, And In Middle And East Florida.--June 12-December 31, 1863.
No. 2.--Report of Maj. Gen. Quincy A. Gillmore, U.S. Army, commanding Department of the South, with congratulatory orders.
[excerpt]
Second. Curved fire was not used enough. The armament of the work contained but two mortars (one 8-inch and one 10-inch). These, when earnestly served, caused the most serious delay in the progress of our works, and on one occasion suspended it entirely.
172. The Coehorn mortar is a most valuable weapon in siege operations. From its lightness and portability it is peculiarly adapted to the attack, and should follow close on the heels of the sappers. This leads to an inquiry into the military principles which controlled the issue of the contest for the possession of Morris Island, under the peculiar circumstances of the case, after we made our lodgment there on the 10th of July, viz: Our forces occupying one end of the island without batteries or defenses of any kind excepting what were improvised from day to day, the enemy being upon the other end strongly fortified (the narrowest part of the island, a mere strip of shallow sand frequently overflowed by the sea, being between the contending forces, and within half musket range of the enemy's batteries), and both parties having their communications to the rear open, why did not the enemy drive us from the island, as their commander asserted should be done, instead of being driven from it themselves?
Two conditions, steadily maintained, achieved success for us, viz:
First. An overpowering mortar fire from our batteries, particularly toward the end of the siege of Fort Wagner, opposed by a weak one from the enemy.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
O.R.-- SERIES I--VOLUME XXVIII/1 [S# 46]
JULY 10---SEPTEMBER 7, 1863.--Operations on Morris Island, S.C.
No. 5.--Reports and Journal of Maj. Thomas B. Brooks, U.S. Army, Aide-de-Camp, and Assistant Engineer.
[excerpt]
Captain Pratt this night superintended moving sap-rollers to the left of the fourth parallel; also to the same place a Coehorn mortar battery, with its platforms and ammunition, from the left of the second parallel.
------------------------------------------------------------
O.R.-- SERIES I--VOLUME XXXIII [S# 60]
UNION CORRESPONDENCE, ORDERS, AND RETURNS RELATING TO OPERATIONS IN NORTH CAROLINA, VIRGINIA, WEST VIRGINIA, MARYLAND, AND PENNSYLVANIA, FROM JANUARY 1 TO APRIL 30, 1864.--#24
[excerpt]
There should be provided for each siege gun 1,000 rounds of ammunition: for each siege mortar 600 shells: for each Coehorn mortar 200. Of this ammunition 200 rounds per piece should be brought up before opening fire; the remainder to be near enough to enable the supply to be kept up. At least 500 sand-bags should be supplied for each gun and mortar of the train, with an equal number in reserve.
--------------------------------------------------
O.R.-- SERIES I--VOLUME XXXVI/2 [S# 68]
UNION CORRESPONDENCE, ORDERS, AND RETURNS RELATING TO OPERATIONS IN SOUTHEASTERN VIRGINIA AND NORTH CAROLINA, FROM MAY 1, 1864, TO MAY 19, 1864.(*)--#16
have ordered to Belle Plain 6,000 solid shot, 5,000 shrapnel, 1,800 solid shot (12-pounder), and a supply of 3-inch and 10-pounder ammunition and 12-pounder canister. It was ordered on two different days. Let your wagons, and those of the artillery ammunition trains of the corps which are ordered to report to Lieutenant Schaff, ordnance officer at Belle Plain, load up first with 12-pounder ammunition, as above, and 1,500 rounds 10-pounder Parrott (no canister is needed); then, if there is room, load with 3-inch ammunition. We require all the above light 12-pounder ammunition, and more, to complete our supply, some 14,000 rounds in all; so let all the 12-pounder, except canister, be brought up. Let all this be done under direction of your ordnance officer, or the officer you may detail. We are much in want of light 12-pounder ammunition, and no time should be lost in bringing it up. Let your train move in connection with some other train, properly escorted. I inclose a letter to Lieutenant Schaff, ordnance officer at Belle Plain. Issue from your train whatever the corps require to fill their chests. I have authorized the chiefs of artillery to draw on you, and send the wagons, if necessary. Make out a statement of the amount of Coehorn mortar ammunition wanted to complete 50 rounds per mortar, and direct the ordnance officer to get it, if possible.
HENRY J. HUNT,
Brig. Gen., Chief of Artillery, Army of the Potomac.
-----------------------------------------------
O.R.-- SERIES I--VOLUME XXXVI/2 [S# 68]
UNION CORRESPONDENCE, ORDERS, AND RETURNS RELATING TO OPERATIONS IN SOUTHEASTERN VIRGINIA AND NORTH CAROLINA, FROM MAY 1, 1864, TO MAY 19, 1864.(*)--#23
[excerpt]
Fort Woodbury, Maj. N. Shatswell commanding.--Garrison, two companies First Massachusetts Heavy Artillery--1 major, 10 commissioned officers, 1 ordnance-sergeant, 256 men. Armament, four 6-pounder James (rifled), four 24-pounder siege (smooth), one 24-pounder F. D. howitzer (smooth), three 30-pounder Parrotts (rifled), one 24-pounder Coehorn mortar. Magazines, two; dry, and a new one being built. Ammunition, full supply and well packed and in good condition. Implements, complete and in good order. Drill in artillery, fair; approaching good. Drill in infantry, commendable degree of efficiency. Discipline, fair. Garrison sufficient.
--------------------------------------------------
Fort Totten, Maj. Charles Hunsdon commanding.--Garrison, two companies First Vermont Artillery--1 major, 7 commissioned officers, 1 ordnance-sergeant, 206 men. Armament-four 6-pounder field guns, eight 32-pounder Parrotts, two 8-inch siege howitzers, one Coehorn mortar, one 10-inch mortar, three 30-pounder Parrotts, one 100-pounder Parrott. Magazines, two; one in serviceable condition and one being repaired. Ammunition full supply and serviceable. Implements, complete and serviceable. Drill in artillery, fair. Drill in infantry, fair. Discipline, fair. Garrison not of sufficient strength.
-----------------------------------------
Fort Cass, Maj. N. Shatswell commanding.--Garrison, two companies First Massachusetts Heavy Artillery--8 commissioned officers, 1 ordnance-sergeant, 220 men. Armament, three 6-pounder field guns (smooth), five 20-pounder Parrotts (rifled), three 24-pounder siege guns (smooth). one 24-pounder F. D. howitzer (smooth), one 24-pounder Coehorn mortar. Magazines, two; dry and in good condition. Ammunition, full supply, well packed and in serviceable condition. Implements, complete and serviceable. Drill in artillery, fair. Drill in infantry, fair. Discipline, fair. Garrison sufficient for the work.
----------------------------------------------------
Fort Craig, Major Holt commanding.--Garrison, two companies First Massachusetts Heavy Artillery--15 commissioned officers, 1 ordnance-sergeant, 280 men. Armament, one 24-pounder field howitzer, four 24-pounder siege, five 30-pounder Parrotts, one Coehorn mortar, one 10-inch mortar. Magazines, two; dry and in good condition. Ammunition, full supply and in good condition. Implements, complete and in good order. Drill in artillery, fair. Drill in infantry, fair. Discipline, fair. Garrison of sufficient strength.
------------------------------------------
Fort Ward, Major Hemingway commanding.--Garrison, three companies First Connecticut Heavy Artillery--1 major, 12 commissioned officers, 1 ordnance-sergeant, 401 men. Armament, two 10-pounder Parrotts, five 4½-inch ordnance, five 32-pounder sea-coast, six 24-pounder siege guns, one 100-pounder Parrott, one 24-pounder Coehorn mortar, seven 8-inch siege mortars. Magazines, three; two serviceable, one unserviceable; new ones being built. Ammunition, full supply and serviceable. Implements, complete and serviceable (but seven guns of this work were mounted and ready for action; work not completed). Drill in artillery, fair. Drill in infantry, ordinary. Discipline, fair. Garrison is sufficient for the work.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Fort Barnard, Major Cook commanding.--Garrison, two companies First Connecticut Heavy Artillery--1 major, 1 ordnance-sergeant, ----- men. Armament, three 24-pounder field howitzers, six 32-pounder sea-coast guns, three 24-pounder siege guns, two 8-inch seacoast howitzers, three 30-pounder Parrotts, one 24-pounder Coehorn mortar, and one 10-inch siege mortar. Magazines, two; dry and in good order. Ammunition, full supply and in good condition. Implements, complete and serviceable. Drill in artillery, fair. Drill in infantry, fair. Discipline, fair. Garrison is sufficient.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
(Several more forts that created the Defenses of Washington, list the Coehorn Mortar (Union))
==============================================================
O.R.-- SERIES I--VOLUME XXXVI/3 [S# 69]
UNION CORRESPONDENCE, ORDERS, AND RETURNS RELATING TO OPERATIONS IN SOUTHEAST VIRGINIA AND NORTH CAROLINA, FROM MAY 20, 1864, TO JUNE 12, 1864.--#30
HDQRS. FIRST BRIGADE, FIRST DIV., SECOND CORPS,
June 11, 1864.
Maj. JOHN HANCOCK,
Assistant Adjutant-General:
MAJOR: I have the honor of reporting that the enemy opened this evening on my line from a Coehorn mortar, firing 6 or 8 shots. Some of the shots fell in front and some in rear of my line of battle, wounding 7 privates of the Second New York Heavy Artillery. The mortar is behind the enemy's second line of works, between a section of artillery. From a signal station in rear of Brown's battery, the men working the mortar could be plainly seen. I send by orderly fragment of one of shot fired.
Very respectfully,
NELSON A. MILES,
Colonel, Commanding First Brigade.
--------------------------------------------------------------
O.R.--SERIES I--VOLUME XL/1 [S# 80]
JUNE 13-JULY 31, 1864.--The Richmond (Virginia) Campaign.
No. 145.--Report of Lieut. James B. Hazelton, Battery E, First New York Light Artillery, of operations July 11-30.
HDQRS. COMPANY E., FIRST NEW YORK LIGHT ARTY.,
August 12, 1864.
LIEUTENANT: In accordance with requirements of Special Orders, No. 209, August 5, 1864, headquarters Army of the Potomac, I have the honor to report as follows as regards the participation of Light Company E, First New York Artillery, since its reorganization under my command and assignment to the temporary service of Coehorn mortar battery previous to and during the late assault upon the enemy's works near Petersburg, Va.:[excerpt]
--------------------
CONTINUED
 
O.R.--SERIES I--VOLUME XL/1 [S# 80]
JUNE 13-JULY 31, 1864.--The Richmond (Virginia) Campaign.
No. 244.--Reports of Col. Henry L. Abbot, First Connecticut Heavy Artillery, commanding Siege Train, including operations June 14-October 31.
[excerpt]
I received a memorandum from General Halleck, on April 20, to get the train afloat at Washington Arsenal with all possible speed. It was to consist of forty siege guns (rifled), ten 10-inch mortars, twenty 8-inch mortars, twenty Coehorn mortars, six 100-pounder Parrotts, and ten 8-inch siege howitzers (subsequently added), with 1,000 rounds per gun, 600 rounds per heavy mortar, and 200 rounds per Coehorn mortar; the necessary battery wagons, forges, mortar wagons, &c., being also included. This train was loaded under the immediate supervision of Capt. S. P. Hatfield, First Connecticut Artillery, my ordnance officer, as rapidly as it could be furnished by the Ordnance Department. With the exception of the ammunition, which to this day has never been fully supplied, the entire train was afloat on May 15, except sixteen of the Coehorn mortars which were not received until June 18.
[excerpt]
The aggregate of the firing was thus, as follows: 30-pounder Parrott, 447; 4 1/2-inch gun (Schenkl), 847; 13-inch mortar, 19; 10-inch mortar, 360 ;8-inch mortar, 1,123; Coehorn mortar, 1,037--weighing over 75 tons.
--------------------------------------
O.R.--SERIES I--VOLUME XL/3 [S# 82]
UNION CORRESPONDENCE, ORDERS, AND RETURNS RELATING TO OPERATIONS IN SOUTHEASTERN VIRGINIA AND NORTH CAROLINA, FROM JULY 5, 1864, TO JULY 31, 1864.(*)--#11
Broadway Landing, Va., July 15, 1864.
Capt. GEORGE T. BALCH,
Assistant to Chief of Ordnance:
CAPTAIN: Please forward to Captain Hatfield, with all possible dispatch, 20,000 rounds of Coehorn mortar ammunition and 5,000 percussion fuses for 30-pounder Parrott, for use, instead of the time-fuses in certain batteries. To be able to change a time to a percussion shell, will be of great advantage in saving transportation; also 3,000 wooden fuses for 8-inch mortars. I expect to need a large supply of ammunition in a very few days. Please hurry forward my supplies for 30-pounder Parrott; 4½-inch gun; 8-inch mortar; 10-inch mortar; and Coehorn mortar; and 8-inch siege howitzer. All my train, except the 100-pounder Parrotts, may be considered about opening fire. My expenditures now are often 500 rounds a day with not quite half my guns yet in position.
Your obedient servant,
HENRY L. ABBOT,
Colonel First Connecticut Artillery, Commanding.
---------------------------------
HEADQUARTERS SIEGE TRAIN,
Broadway Landing, July 19, 1864.
Brig. Gen. GEORGE D. RAMSAY,
Chief of Ordnance, U.S. Army, Winder Building,
Washington, D.C.:
Am nearly out of Coehorn mortar ammunition. Please forward about 10,000 rounds as soon as possible. Was my letter of 15th instant received?
HENRY L. ABBOT,
Colonel First Connecticut Artillery, Commanding.
-----------------------------------------------------------
O.R.--SERIES I--VOLUME XLII/2 [S# 88]
UNION CORRESPONDENCE, ORDERS, AND RETURNS, RELATING TO OPERATIONS IN SOUTHEASTERN VIRGINIA AND NORTH CAROLINA, FROM AUGUST 1, 1864, TO SEPTEMBER 30, 1864.(*)--#8
BROADWAY LANDING, VA., August 14, 1864.
Captain EDSON,
Ordnance Officer, Fort Monroe, Va.:
I am out of my supply of Coehorn mortar shells and the rebels are taking advantage of it. Please send me any shells and wooden plugs which you can possibly procure, on the mail boat, telegraphing me when they start. I don't care for prepared ammunition. Time is very important.
HENRY L. ABBOT,
Colonel First Connecticut Artillery, Commanding Siege Train.
-----------------------------------------------------------
O.R.--SERIES I--VOLUME XLII/2 [S# 88]
UNION CORRESPONDENCE, ORDERS, AND RETURNS, RELATING TO OPERATIONS IN SOUTHEASTERN VIRGINIA AND NORTH CAROLINA, FROM AUGUST 1, 1864, TO SEPTEMBER 30, 1864.(*)--#17
DUTCH GAP, August 22, 1864.
General BUTLER:
The enemy have fired shot from a Coehorn mortar. Can two be sent me?
LUDLOW.
Major.
-----
HEADQUARTERS,
August 22, 1864--10 a.m.
Major LUDLOW,
Dutch Gap:
Have no Coehorns. Will send an officer from Graham's gun-boat who understands the Sawyer shells. You ought to be able to reach the range of a Coehorn mortar with your Sawyer canister. Try them at 10 degrees elevation; they will give you 600 yards.
BENJ. F. BUTLER,
Major-General, Commanding.
---------------------------------------------------
Note: The Coehorn mortar used paper fuses.
==========================================

Hopefully, there will be more responses soon!

Respectfully submitted,
M. E. Wolf
 
Thanks

Thanks you for your research and time. This little mortar has me stumped. Everything about both it and it's sled indicates CW or before manufacture. Interestingly, I found it in Idaho on a recent trip. I appreciate any and all comments from the forum.
 
Wish I could help, Bigiron. I barely know what a coehorn is, let alone something about the manufacturers thereof. But we have an amazing group here, and I'd be surprised if there isn't at least one who knows exactly what you want to find out. It might take a bit of time, but there is someone.

ole
 
Dear 101CombatVet;

I am a little bit surprised by the bore measurement also.

O.R.--SERIES I--VOLUME XLVI/1 [S# 95]
JANUARY 3-17, 1865.--Expedition to and capture of Fort Fisher, N.C., and its dependencies.
No. 4.--Reports of Bvt. Brig. Gen. Cyrus B. Comstock, Aide-de-Camp to Lieutenant-General Grant.
[excerpt]
[lnclosure.]
Heavy guns in position at Fort Fisher at capture.
-------------
10 5 1/2-inch Coehorn mortar Serviceable Serviceable.
11 6 3/8-inch smooth (32) Unserviceable Unserviceable.
12 5 1/2-inch Coehorn mortar Serviceable Serviceable.
--------------------------------------------------------
6. 4 1/2-inch rifled Parrott do Do. Was the smallest I saw on the table of captured guns.
========================================================
All weapons/ordnance had to go through a Models & Patterns Ordnance Board. Perhaps the National Archives has something on it. As far as Confederate documentation goes it is most likely a million to one chance they have it; as so many documents were destroyed before Lee's surrender and Richmond at risk. Being marked a New Jersey piece; it could be lucky to indeed check with the National Archives and see if through the Models & Patterns Ordnance Board records, to see if they have this "Meyers" mortar.

Next area to research with; is the Aberdein Proving Grounds, Aberdein Maryland. See if you can get a hold of the ordnance and artillery museum. PBS "History Detectives" used Aberdein Proving Ground's museum expert on cannons to identify a shell.

If that doesn't work--contact Kim Holien (Male); history director of the US Army for Arlington Cemetery, Ft. Meyer and Ft. McNair at 703-696-3114 but--be prepared to wait on hold a lot; as he is constantly interrupted by Generals calling him for this and that. His building is on Ft. Meyers, in Arlington, Virginia.


Just some thoughts.

Respectfully submitted for consideration,
M. E. Wolf
 
Dear BigIron44;

I wouldn't be a bit surprised that the piece you have had changed hands from Union, CSA, back again and such. If dismounted, it could have been remounted by the other army.

What isn't easily destroyed is the imprint branding of the piece "Meyers Bridgeton NJ."

There were many unidentified, with the exception of caliber mortars, e.g. 10 inch, 24 inch etc.

I'd keep an open mind, in regard to a CSA vs. USA piece.

Just some thoughts.

Respectfully submitted for consideration,
M. E. Wolf
 
Dear BigIron44;

I got off the phone with Mr. Holien (US Army Historian 3rd US Infantry at Ft. Meyers, VA);

He suggested:
Army Ordnance - Aberdien Proving Grounds
Phone: 410-278-3602 or 2396
-----------------
Petersburg National Battlefield - US Park Service - Chris.
They have a 'mortar museam' per se.
-----------------------------
Civil War News
Peter Yorkson
See about the Artillery Magazines offered and contact them
------------------------
Paulson Brothers of Michigan
They make reproductions
===================================

That said--Mr. Holien is inclined to agree with the fact that it is a Civil War circa motar. He wasn't 'gun-shy' with the bore measure of 2.75; the four handles and the like. His links to the above are probably excellent choices.

He also believes that this mortar may have been purchased prior to the outbreak of the rebellion as they were plotting/planning it in Buchanan's administration. It is established that there was a build up of arms under the US Army Arsenal/State Arsenal acquiring system; and like Twigg, Floyd and others--had every intention of using them against the USA/Lincoln Administration. And, Mr. Holien said--there were purchases in the North as the Civil War raged on.

He also agrees with my research (see in previous post with Official Records); that the mortar was used in this manner.

Respectfully submitted for consideration,
M. E. Wolf
 
coehorn mortar

Sir - I can't thank you enough for your help. My expertise is in CW era images, especially tintypes and ambrotypes should you ever require such consultation. Respectfully - T.R. Rudder
 
Dear BigIron44;

The CivilWarTalk is a collection of all kinds of expertise`--and now you have exposed yours so; as you can see--it is a network and collective bunch of folks that are students of Civil War History.

Again, welcome to the Forums and look forward to your posting on Tin Types and Ambrotypes; and anything you desire.

All of us know a lot--but, never know it all :wink:

[Bows politely to the gentleman]

Respectfully submitted,
M. E. Wolf
 
Gentlemen,

What you have there is a genuine REPRODUCTION likely cast in the 1970's or early 1980's by my father, John P. Meyers of Bridgeton, New Jersey. It and several others were cast at the (now defunct) Joseph Toye Iron and Brass Foundry on Bank Street in Bridgeton. The original wooden pattern is probably buried somewhere in my father's basement. Dad is still active in the Civil War hobby as a collector and a speaker on small arms and light artillery in the South Jersey area.

Regards,

C. J. Meyers
 
Gentlemen,

What you have there is a genuine REPRODUCTION likely cast in the 1970's or early 1980's by my father, John P. Meyers of Bridgeton, New Jersey. It and several others were cast at the (now defunct) Joseph Toye Iron and Brass Foundry on Bank Street in Bridgeton. The original wooden pattern is probably buried somewhere in my father's basement. Dad is still active in the Civil War hobby as a collector and a speaker on small arms and light artillery in the South Jersey area.

Regards,

C. J. Meyers
Just WOW!
 
Gentlemen,

What you have there is a genuine REPRODUCTION likely cast in the 1970's or early 1980's by my father, John P. Meyers of Bridgeton, New Jersey. It and several others were cast at the (now defunct) Joseph Toye Iron and Brass Foundry on Bank Street in Bridgeton. The original wooden pattern is probably buried somewhere in my father's basement. Dad is still active in the Civil War hobby as a collector and a speaker on small arms and light artillery in the South Jersey area.

Regards,

C. J. Meyers

How many did your father have cast by the foundry?
 
Gentlemen,

What you have there is a genuine REPRODUCTION likely cast in the 1970's or early 1980's by my father, John P. Meyers of Bridgeton, New Jersey. It and several others were cast at the (now defunct) Joseph Toye Iron and Brass Foundry on Bank Street in Bridgeton. The original wooden pattern is probably buried somewhere in my father's basement. Dad is still active in the Civil War hobby as a collector and a speaker on small arms and light artillery in the South Jersey area.

Regards,

C. J. Meyers
Question, you stated that your father had the tubes cast at the Joseph Toye Iron and Brass Foundry. Was it associated with the Sgt Joe Toye of Easy Company, 506th P.I.R? (Band of Brothers fame)
 
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