Civil War San Francisco

jrweaver

Corporal
Joined
Dec 9, 2020
Just found this somehow. Very interesting indeed. We don't get to hear a lot about what happened out here on the far left coast.

One of the veterans buried in the cemetery where I volunteer was stationed at the Presidio.
Which cemetery is that?
I've toured the cemetery at The Presidio, and found it very interesting. I was traveling in the area and saw that NPS had a ranger-led tour of the cemetery, so I signed up. There are a lot of Buffalo Soldiers buried there, as well as a number of other soldiers from various areas.
 

jrweaver

Corporal
Joined
Dec 9, 2020
Sorry for the late reply - I missed the question in your response! My bad!
Yes, there a lot of remnants of these defenses. A very nice preservation is at Fort Mason. Park at the Visitor Center and walk up the hill toward the bay. You'll see a Rodman gun mounted in a battery that has a Third System position, an 1870s position, and a Spanish-American War "emergency" position - a concrete emplacement for a Rodman cannon, temporary because they couldn't make the steel cannon fast enough.
Alcatraz has a lot of the original fort left, and they now give fort-period tours to show the remnants. Just looking at my post, though, you can probably find a lot of remnants walking the island yourself.
Above Fort Point there are nice remnants of Battery East. They are accessible from Lincoln Road just east of the spot where you cross under the bridge approach. Battery West has been hidden by the Endicott Period concrete emplacements, but those are interesting in their own right.
Finally, on the north side of the bridge there are two sites from Third System and 1870s period that are open to the public. The first one is the Lime Point Battery. Exit Route 1 at the first exit, then go west under the bridge approach and follow the shore up the hill. There's a parking area, then a short walk to Battery Spencer, a concrete emplacement. On the way you'll see the 1870s Rodman positions. From that same parking area, walk down the road to the west - it's closed to all but Park Service vehicles and it's a pretty decent walk, but the views are well worth it. You'll be going downhill, but that means you have to come back uphill to your car! You will end up at water level at a place called Kirby Cove. There are many remnants of the brick battery there, and the Endicott Battery is well preserved.
The whole area at Fort Cronkite and Fort Barry has a great selection of Endicott Period and later concrete emplacements, as well as the best views of the city and the Pacific Ocean. World War II Battery Townsley stands at the north end of Fort Cronkite, and has been fully restored. There is a 16-inch gun just outside the battery, waiting for the construction of a carriage to be able to mount it in the battery.
When I lived out there in the '70s I did a lot of exploring. I had a friend from high school who had been living in San Fran for several years, and I showed her a number of places that she had no idea existed. I'm sure you are right about locals not realizing some of the historic gems there are in the San Fran area.
 

John Winn

Major
Joined
Mar 13, 2014
Location
State of Jefferson
Which cemetery is that?
I've toured the cemetery at The Presidio, and found it very interesting. I was traveling in the area and saw that NPS had a ranger-led tour of the cemetery, so I signed up. There are a lot of Buffalo Soldiers buried there, as well as a number of other soldiers from various areas.
Jacksonville, Oregon. We have a lot of pioneers, the cemetery having been opened in 1860 which is early for here. We have a lot of Indian war veterans, 63 CW vets (all of whom I've researched), some Mexican War vets, and two War of 1812 vets. The guy I referred to was a Swiss immigrant who arrived in San Francisco in 1852 and signed up in 1863. Soon after the war he came to Jacksonville (where a friend of his was living - a locally-famous photographer; took the first photo of Crater Lake).
 

jrweaver

Corporal
Joined
Dec 9, 2020
Jacksonville, Oregon. We have a lot of pioneers, the cemetery having been opened in 1860 which is early for here. We have a lot of Indian war veterans, 63 CW vets (all of whom I've researched), some Mexican War vets, and two War of 1812 vets. The guy I referred to was a Swiss immigrant who arrived in San Francisco in 1852 and signed up in 1863. Soon after the war he came to Jacksonville (where a friend of his was living - a locally-famous photographer; took the first photo of Crater Lake).
Very interesting, Thanks! I've never been to Jacksonville. I spent some time around Beaverton/Portland when I was in the semiconductor industry, working with Intel and their suppliers, and I spent some time at Fort Stevens at the mouth of the Columbia. A favorite town was Astoria, a nice little town with a great maritime museum and very nice people. I also went across the river to Fort Columbia and out to Fort Canby.
A funny story about Fort Stevens:
I drove out to visit the fort on the only free day I had while working at Beaverton. It was pouring rain, but I wasn't going to let that deter me. I had done some work with W.L. Gore and Associates and bought some good GORE-TEX rain gear while working with them. I put on my rain suit and spent a couple of hours climbing around the batteries. I ended up at the Visitor Center, and pulled off my jacket. I was completely dry except for two thin lines of water coming down my chest to my belt line. I found that curious, and as an engineer I had to figure out what was going on :smile:. After analyzing the situation, I realized that the source of the water was where the temples of my glasses held my hood out about 1/8 of an inch, and that allowed water in that ran down my beard, onto my shoulders, then down my chest. I couldn't help but laugh, but also thought that I was a walking advertisement for the quality of GORE-TEX rain gear!
 

John Winn

Major
Joined
Mar 13, 2014
Location
State of Jefferson
Very interesting, Thanks! I've never been to Jacksonville. I spent some time around Beaverton/Portland when I was in the semiconductor industry, working with Intel and their suppliers, and I spent some time at Fort Stevens at the mouth of the Columbia. A favorite town was Astoria, a nice little town with a great maritime museum and very nice people. I also went across the river to Fort Columbia and out to Fort Canby.
A funny story about Fort Stevens:
I drove out to visit the fort on the only free day I had while working at Beaverton. It was pouring rain, but I wasn't going to let that deter me. I had done some work with W.L. Gore and Associates and bought some good GORE-TEX rain gear while working with them. I put on my rain suit and spent a couple of hours climbing around the batteries. I ended up at the Visitor Center, and pulled off my jacket. I was completely dry except for two thin lines of water coming down my chest to my belt line. I found that curious, and as an engineer I had to figure out what was going on :smile:. After analyzing the situation, I realized that the source of the water was where the temples of my glasses held my hood out about 1/8 of an inch, and that allowed water in that ran down my beard, onto my shoulders, then down my chest. I couldn't help but laugh, but also thought that I was a walking advertisement for the quality of GORE-TEX rain gear!
I've had many things Gore-Tex (having been a very outdoorsy sort).

Jacksonville is an interesting little town. It's one of the better preserved old western towns there is and two movies have been filmed there. Gold was discovered there in 1851 and the stampede was on to settle southern Oregon. It was the county seat until the late 1800s after the railroad bypassed them and Medford was established. In the 50s the interstate almost went their way but, instead, ended up going through Medford and so the town was sort of forgotten. As a result there wasn't a lot of new building. In 1966 a good portion of the town was designated a historic district (a new thing then) so now there's protection of the older buildings, many of which remain.

Southern Oregon is beautiful and we're now a celebrated wine region. Come see us sometime.
 
Last edited:

jrweaver

Corporal
Joined
Dec 9, 2020
I've had many things Gore-Tex (having been a very outdoorsy sort).

Jacksonville is an interesting little town. It's one of the better preserved old western towns there is and two movies have been filmed there. Gold was discovered there in 1851 and the stampede was on to settle southern Oregon. It was the county seat until the late 1800s after the railroad bypassed them and Medford was established. In the 50s the interstate almost went their way but, instead, ended up going through Medford and so the town was sort of forgotten. As a result there wasn't a lot of new building. In 1966 a good portion of the town was designated a historic district (a new thing then) so now there's protection of the older buildings, many of which remain.

Southern Oregon is beautiful and we're now a celebrated wine region. Come see us sometime.
I'd love to come your way some time! It looks like a beautiful area from the pictures I've seen, and I always (almost always) enjoy visiting new places! It's a long way, I live in Indiana, but might make a good trip.

I'm a nut about Gore-Tex. I started working with W.L. Gore in the '70s, doing a research study on Gore-Tex Cleanroom Garments. I published a paper that in today's lingo went viral, and Gore used reprints of my paper for their advertising of their cleanroom garments. I used the early Gore-Tex ULPA (Ultra-Low Penetration, Air) filters in critical cleanrooms, and found them to be far superior to conventional fiberglass filters. In the '80s I had established a reputation as a cleanroom guru, and Gore invited me to speak annually to a meeting of their product and research leaders from around the world at a meeting in Maryland, their world headquarters. I would give a presentation on what I saw as the product needs for ultraclean facilities, then we would all brainstorm on how Gore could meet those needs. I couldn't accept anything for what I did for them - it would be a conflict of interest with my employer - but they would take me to their company store and let me use their employee discount to buy what I wanted. I ended up with great products that I still use today! For their part, they came up with some inventions that served cleanrooms, and I was able to use those to solve my cleanroom issues. It also advanced the cleanliness of cleanrooms throughout the world. It was truly a win-win-win situation!
 

damYankee

1st Lieutenant
Joined
Aug 12, 2011
I've had many things Gore-Tex (having been a very outdoorsy sort).

Jacksonville is an interesting little town. It's one of the better preserved old western towns there is and two movies have been filmed there. Gold was discovered there in 1851 and the stampede was on to settle southern Oregon. It was the county seat until the late 1800s after the railroad bypassed them and Medford was established. In the 50s the interstate almost went their way but, instead, ended up going through Medford and so the town was sort of forgotten. As a result there wasn't a lot of new building. In 1966 a good portion of the town was designated a historic district (a new thing then) so now there's protection of the older buildings, many of which remain.

Southern Oregon is beautiful and we're now a celebrated wine region. Come see us sometime.
My father's side of the family were early Oregon pioneers, starting with James Ingram who brought his extended family from the Fayetteville Arkansas area to the Oregon Territory in 1852, via the Oregon Trail having first traveled thru the Oklahoma Indian territory, you had to acquire a pass and be guided through by an Indian scout, but in the group traveling with his party were a few members of the Cherokee nation. Several members of the wagon died from cholera including his 8 year old daughter.
After the Civil War, my g g grandmother (around 1875) who was widowed during the war when my gg grandfather John Calvin (CSA) was killed in action, he was a member of Shelby's Raiders, reportedly a scout. He left her with 4 children including my g grandfather John Calvin Jackson, my father's maternal grandfather , who was blind.
There were many ex Confederates and Union veterans who went west to Oregon. Years later the son of a Kansas Union veteran brought his family to Coos County, Oregon, and the two families blended.
 

John Winn

Major
Joined
Mar 13, 2014
Location
State of Jefferson
My father's side of the family were early Oregon pioneers, starting with James Ingram who brought his extended family from the Fayetteville Arkansas area to the Oregon Territory in 1852, via the Oregon Trail having first traveled thru the Oklahoma Indian territory, you had to acquire a pass and be guided through by an Indian scout, but in the group traveling with his party were a few members of the Cherokee nation. Several members of the wagon died from cholera including his 8 year old daughter.
After the Civil War, my g g grandmother (around 1875) who was widowed during the war when my gg grandfather John Calvin (CSA) was killed in action, he was a member of Shelby's Raiders, reportedly a scout. He left her with 4 children including my g grandfather John Calvin Jackson, my father's maternal grandfather , who was blind.
There were many ex Confederates and Union veterans who went west to Oregon. Years later the son of a Kansas Union veteran brought his family to Coos County, Oregon, and the two families blended.
Very interesting; thanks for sharing.

From the research I've done I'd say more of the early Oregon pioneers - certainly those who moved to southern Oregon - were from southern states than northern. Almost all the immigrants were German, Swiss, or Irish (with a very small smattering of French and Italian).
 

damYankee

1st Lieutenant
Joined
Aug 12, 2011
Very interesting; thanks for sharing.

From the research I've done I'd say more of the early Oregon pioneers - certainly those who moved to southern Oregon - were from southern states than northern. Almost all the immigrants were German, Swiss, or Irish (with a very small smattering of French and Italian).
That is my take also, James Ingram was born in Carolina, his family were slave owners, from what I have been able to learn, at some point his father went bankrupt, the family auctioned off the slaves and the property and moved to Tennessee, then on to Arkansas.
But the 1849 gold rush changed everything, James went to the gold fields of California, returned 2 years later and sold out, moved to Oregon.
 

2nd Dragoon

Corporal
Joined
Oct 4, 2016
Location
San Diego, Ca
Small personal story showing how effective a cover this fog could be: I was visiting San Francisco in about 1971, and friends took me up on Mount Tamalpais one afternoon. As dusk approached, we watched the fog move in, a kind of sight I had never seen before -- this white blanket of cloud moving in from the ocean and covering the land, until we were standing on the last island above the fog. Then it enveloped us, too. One of the magical experiences of my youth!

P.S. -- The drive back down the mountain was quite harrowing!

Roy B.
I stood watches on the end of the pier in 1970 on Treasure Island which is made from a garbage dump for the 1939 Worlds Fair; it was a Naval Training Center back when I was there. Pier watches in the fog; you would never know where land was if you walked the wrong direction the fog was so thick. Why a pier watch? To help any stupid civilian sailor who ran into the pier in the fog; or at least that was what I was told. My family is from San Francisco since 1872 having left the war torn southern states.
 

John Winn

Major
Joined
Mar 13, 2014
Location
State of Jefferson
That is my take also, James Ingram was born in Carolina, his family were slave owners, from what I have been able to learn, at some point his father went bankrupt, the family auctioned off the slaves and the property and moved to Tennessee, then on to Arkansas.
But the 1849 gold rush changed everything, James went to the gold fields of California, returned 2 years later and sold out, moved to Oregon.
Many started out in California but ended up in Oregon when gold was discovered here in 1851 (thus moving north rather than south from the main Oregon trail). Southern Oregon was very pro-south and even pro-Confederacy in places, I think as a result of the white population having been largely initially from southern states.

Slavery per se wasn't popular but non-white citizenship was strongly opposed (and ended up in the constitution).

I have no ancestral connection to anywhere west of Missouri but have traced many local pioneers. Your folk sound pretty typical.
 

Belfoured

2nd Lieutenant
Joined
Aug 3, 2019
I'd love to come your way some time! It looks like a beautiful area from the pictures I've seen, and I always (almost always) enjoy visiting new places! It's a long way, I live in Indiana, but might make a good trip.

I'm a nut about Gore-Tex. I started working with W.L. Gore in the '70s, doing a research study on Gore-Tex Cleanroom Garments. I published a paper that in today's lingo went viral, and Gore used reprints of my paper for their advertising of their cleanroom garments. I used the early Gore-Tex ULPA (Ultra-Low Penetration, Air) filters in critical cleanrooms, and found them to be far superior to conventional fiberglass filters. In the '80s I had established a reputation as a cleanroom guru, and Gore invited me to speak annually to a meeting of their product and research leaders from around the world at a meeting in Maryland, their world headquarters. I would give a presentation on what I saw as the product needs for ultraclean facilities, then we would all brainstorm on how Gore could meet those needs. I couldn't accept anything for what I did for them - it would be a conflict of interest with my employer - but they would take me to their company store and let me use their employee discount to buy what I wanted. I ended up with great products that I still use today! For their part, they came up with some inventions that served cleanrooms, and I was able to use those to solve my cleanroom issues. It also advanced the cleanliness of cleanrooms throughout the world. It was truly a win-win-win situation!
By the way, thanks for starting this excellent thread. A real contribution adding to (at least my) knowledge.
 

damYankee

1st Lieutenant
Joined
Aug 12, 2011
I have found a Captain James W. Lingenfelter of Company B, 71st Pennsylvania infantry, was killed while on the picket line. In civilian life, Captain Lingenfelter had been a practicing attorney in Jacksonville, Oregon. He had been visiting in the East when the war started and enlisted to serve with Colonel Baker.
After a little more searching I found a link worth sharing
http://www.thomaslegion.net/americancivilwar/oregoncivilwarhistory.html
 

Lubliner

Captain
Forum Host
Joined
Nov 27, 2018
Location
Chattanooga, Tennessee
Even if many of the settlers were pro-southern, they were relying upon Union troops at the forts for protection. These troops normally focused on Indian hostilities, but with the war the additional focus would have been operating against confederate groups and formations.
Lubliner.
 

jrweaver

Corporal
Joined
Dec 9, 2020
Even if many of the settlers were pro-southern, they were relying upon Union troops at the forts for protection. These troops normally focused on Indian hostilities, but with the war the additional focus would have been operating against confederate groups and formations.
Lubliner.
Certainly prior to secession there was dependence on the forts for protection from the Spanish, Mexicans, and Indians - though the former two had fallen to just a nuisance level. They also relied on them for the biggest threat - a foreign invader. Once secession began, the politics shifted such that the local citizens saw them more as a projection of Federal power than a protector. Such is the fickle nature of politics!
I don't think the businesses really saw any Confederate activity in the area as a threat, as they had the same beliefs. I think that they would have welcomed them, based on their request to Johnston to turn the fort over to the Confederacy.
 

Booklady

Sergeant
Joined
Mar 19, 2017
Location
New England
Bay Area native here. Excellent thread, so informative, and lots of familiar place names that are part of family lore. I have a very old, vague memory of traveling across the bay on one of the ferries, and personal familiarity with driving across the old Dumbarton. One of my brothers spent some time on Treasure Island, I believe, when he was in the Navy in the late 60s. Thanks so much for posting the information and photos.
 

jrweaver

Corporal
Joined
Dec 9, 2020
Bay Area native here. Excellent thread, so informative, and lots of familiar place names that are part of family lore. I have a very old, vague memory of traveling across the bay on one of the ferries, and personal familiarity with driving across the old Dumbarton. One of my brothers spent some time on Treasure Island, I believe, when he was in the Navy in the late 60s. Thanks so much for posting the information and photos.
I lived in the Bay Area in the 1970s for a couple of years. I was in the semiconductor industry, and had to do my time in Silicon Valley! I was single, just out of college, and had a lot of free time. That gave me the opportunity to do a lot of exploring. As I was developing my fort avocation, I still traveled to the Bay Area a lot, and was able to schedule time on those trips to continue my research. As I approached retirement from my "real job," I started doing more training for NPS at GGNRA and used those trips to be able to continue my research.

A funny story: John Martini, a great friend and fantastic historian, sent me an email that one of the non-historic prison buildings on Alcatraz had been torn down, revealing parts of the sally port that had not been visible previously. He also sent me a great group of pictures! I called to my wife, who was in the living room; she came into the office and looked over my shoulder at the photos. I said, "Carol, we need to go to San Francisco!" She responded, "You're not going to get any argument from me!" We spent a week in the area climbing around the fortifications from all periods!
 

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