Cartouche ID help

29thWisCoG

Corporal
Joined
Apr 12, 2021
Need some help to ID this cartouche from an M1861, its vary faint and I have enhanced this pic to get the initials to show better... can't make it out, looked on the website below and nothing seems to match (and I'm not even sure it is oriented the correct way). Looks like EAP???

https://proofhouse.com/cm/us_inspector.htm

edit: it looks like it could be
EHP Edwin H. Perry 1862

How common was it to have a lock/barrel with a different date than the inspection stamp?

close up.jpg
 
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Having a very limited amount of the script letter to judge, I am guessing "EHP" for Edwin H. Perry. Perry was not an inspector at Springfield Armory, but inspected 10000 Model 1861 made at Parker, Snow & Co. Charles W. Pate one of the authors of "U.S. Military Arms Inspector Marks" mentions that he has observed one 1861 Springfield marked lock, but believes the stock to have been one of the Contractor made stocks. Parker, Snow being one of the many contractor versions. Don't bet any money on what my old eyes have found. It could be a swapped out stock or someone else entirely. Is the barrel dated 1861 and what are the other initials?
 
Wow, that is some great information! This is the only other markings on the firearm. I think you are right that the lock was swapped out to this stock, it doesn't fit closely around the cone seat in the other picture above. So it seems this is somewhat of a parts gun, but I'm fine with that as I know they are all original parts. It could be that the lock, stock, and barrel are all from different rifles, but I don't know for sure. Thanks for the help, I appreciate it!

IMG_7518D.JPG
 
I think it looks four letters, not three. I know I've see four letters in that shaped cartouche before, but whether on a Model 1861 or a Colt 1860 revolver, I don't remember.
As you say, that lock and bolster don't fit together correctly, and were NOT originally together, I don't think.
 
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Having a very limited amount of the script letter to judge, I am guessing "EHP" for Edwin H. Perry. Perry was not an inspector at Springfield Armory, but inspected 10000 Model 1861 made at Parker, Snow & Co. Charles W. Pate one of the authors of "U.S. Military Arms Inspector Marks" mentions that he has observed one 1861 Springfield marked lock, but believes the stock to have been one of the Contractor made stocks. Parker, Snow being one of the many contractor versions. Don't bet any money on what my old eyes have found. It could be a swapped out stock or someone else entirely. Is the barrel dated 1861 and what are the other initials?
I have a 1863 Parker & Snow but best I can make out on the cartouche is it looks like 2 letters not 3.
 
I have a 1863 Parker & Snow but best I can make out on the cartouche is it looks like 2 letters not 3.
Parker,Snow Model 1861 Contract Springfield listed inspectors--OWA on a 1864 dated, RPB inspected 1000, JEC 1864 dated, D dated 1865, JHH listed, but none known, FDL in 1863, LEM in 1864, EHP in 1863 & WP in 1864. So yours "maybe" WP
 
I have a copy of "THE U.S. MODEL 1861 SPRINGFIELD RIFLE-MUSKET" by James B. Whisker, Daniel D. Hartzler & Larry W. Yantz. When I get a chance, I'll dig it out and take a look to see what they have.
 
I have a copy of "THE U.S. MODEL 1861 SPRINGFIELD RIFLE-MUSKET" by James B. Whisker, Daniel D. Hartzler & Larry W. Yantz. When I get a chance, I'll dig it out and take a look to see what they have.
I paged through my copy and was disappointed at the lack of (easily seen when paging through) info on cartouches. the gem of this book is good photos showing the differing eagles heads stamped on the barrels by various makers - you can tell if a barrel was made by the maker of the lock!
 
Since Jeff in Ohio looked in the book, I'll post this pic of the cartouche marks on my Model 1861 Springfield (dated 1862). The mystery cartouche mark may be the top mark in the pic below. The bottom mark is clearly ESA for Erskine S Allin. According to Proofhouse the cartouche is HTH - an unknown inspector mark found on US M1861 Springfield Muskets and M1866 Cadet Rifles.
F075-06.jpeg
 
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Parker,Snow Model 1861 Contract Springfield listed inspectors--OWA on a 1864 dated, RPB inspected 1000, JEC 1864 dated, D dated 1865, JHH listed, but none known, FDL in 1863, LEM in 1864, EHP in 1863 & WP in 1864. So yours "maybe" WP
As best I can make it out looking at it straight on it ends in a B but if the cartouche was stamped upside down (did they ever do that?) then it starts with a E. So I'd rule out the WP.
 
Since Jeff in Ohio looked in the book, I'll post this pic of the cartouche marks on my Model 1861 Springfield (dated 1862). The mystery cartouche mark may be the top mark in the pic below. The bottom mark is clearly ESA for Erskine S Allin. According to Proofhouse the cartouche is HTH - an unknown inspector mark found on US M1861 Springfield Muskets and M1866 Cadet Rifles.
View attachment 405132

Fine photo of a fine conditioned rifle-musket.
Remember I looked in the book, and turned every page (I think), but I expected to find a clear listing of inspectors, did not, and I did not ready all the text...so I hope someone else will take a better look.
 
I paged through my copy and was disappointed at the lack of (easily seen when paging through) info on cartouches. the gem of this book is good photos showing the differing eagles heads stamped on the barrels by various makers - you can tell if a barrel was made by the maker of the lock!
Hey Jeff, what does your book say about the eagle on this barrel? Supposed to be M1861 Springfield, but I am not so sure. I've enhanced and cropped the pic from above to highlight the eagle:

eagle on barrel.jpg
 
I am always looking for the "real" springfields and that looks right - but I don't have the book to look at until tomorrow.
 
Since Jeff in Ohio looked in the book, I'll post this pic of the cartouche marks on my Model 1861 Springfield (dated 1862). The mystery cartouche mark may be the top mark in the pic below. The bottom mark is clearly ESA for Erskine S Allin. According to Proofhouse the cartouche is HTH - an unknown inspector mark found on US M1861 Springfield Muskets and M1866 Cadet Rifles.
View attachment 405132
Your cartouche is HSH for Henry S. Hill
 
Hey Jeff, what does your book say about the eagle on this barrel? Supposed to be M1861 Springfield, but I am not so sure. I've enhanced and cropped the pic from above to highlight the eagle:

View attachment 405144
The VP and Eagle are on most if not all Springfields and Springfields made by different Contractors if I'm not mistaken. Not just the ones made solely by Springfield.
 
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