Handguns Cap And Ball Revolvers

New guy jumping in here. Loving it. I earlier said I was new the the Civil War era guns. Working on a S&H rifle right now. My collection is newer old history. Indian War and WW2.
I do have a 2nd gen Colt Navy .36 that is so much fun. No Italy stamps etc, and I like to believe it is indeed the real Colt reproduction and without looking it up again. I believe it's production date was 1982-84. Does that sound about right?
My only re-pop, but sure do enjoy it. Love the smell of bp in the morning. Between it and my trap-door. I enjoy and then just kinda curse the smell on the way home and the clean after.
So going back to the start question: Yes in-deedy-do, they are still in use. Origional and re-pops.
 
If that is an original Colt 3rd Model Dragoon, it must have been special ordered from Colt as the barrel is not 7.5" long and has the appropriate sized load lever assembly for that barrel length. The 4-screw frame has been cut for a shoulder stock, and the sights are commensurate with that. The grips are definitely not Colt but have some nice figure in the wood.

@Jobe Holiday: How can you be sure they are made from curly maple? Black walnut (a preferred wood) has at least those characteristics.

Maple is a blonde wood, and those appear to be oil finished, not stained. Not buying into that perception.

Regards,

Jim
 
With all due respect, the Curly Maple grips are replacements. The original grips were straight grain Walnut.
J.

I didn't know there was anything unusual about the grip until I delivered the gun to the VMI museum for donation. That's when the museum director pointed out the two piece grip. I did a little looking around on the internet and found that all the Civil War era Colt revolvers were manufactured with a single piece, wooden (walnut?) grip, held in place by the brass butt strap. The two piece grips halves on this gun are held on with the bolt and bushings that are installed through a drilling in the middle of each grip half - like Remingtons of that era.

So, I'm sure it wasn't originally manufactured this way - the grip must have been a repair/replacement - as you say. Perhaps it was easier to make and install the twp piece grips rather than try to reproduce a single piece replacement.
 
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Hi JH: I can accept that but could you be more specific for my own knowledge? I was with understanding that Colt got pressured to come back with a reproduction model due to the many Italian and other made re-pops.
They were made for a few short years as Colt only. No Italy or other stamps anywhere. This window was shallow. They then continued with parts made elsewhere, and then stopped all production once again.
Please correct if I'm wrong. I just need to know for my own peace of mind.
 
Hi JH: I can accept that but could you be more specific for my own knowledge? I was with understanding that Colt got pressured to come back with a reproduction model due to the many Italian and other made re-pops.
They were made for a few short years as Colt only. No Italy or other stamps anywhere. This window was shallow. They then continued with parts made elsewhere, and then stopped all production once again.
Please correct if I'm wrong. I just need to know for my own peace of mind.

AFAIK the modern Colt percussion revolvers were all made in Italy but fitted, assembled and finished at Colt in Hartford, CT.
 
If that is an original Colt 3rd Model Dragoon, it must have been special ordered from Colt as the barrel is not 7.5" long and has the appropriate sized load lever assembly for that barrel length. The 4-screw frame has been cut for a shoulder stock, and the sights are commensurate with that. The grips are definitely not Colt but have some nice figure in the wood.

@Jobe Holiday: How can you be sure they are made from curly maple? Black walnut (a preferred wood) has at least those characteristics.

Maple is a blonde wood, and those appear to be oil finished, not stained. Not buying into that perception.

Regards,

Jim

This gun is a Colt 3rd Model Dragoon Revolver, Serial Number 17310, manufactured in 1858. During 1858 Colt's production serial number range for the Colt Dragoon, 3rd model was 16500 - 17999. This revolver was manufactured to accept a shoulder stock attachment. Here's a boiler plate description I found for another dragoon with a near by serial number :

"The revolver has a four-screw frame with stock cut-outs in the recoil shields and a slot for the stock clamp in the bottom of the butt strap. The half-round/half-octagon barrel has a folding leaf rear sight mounted in a dovetail near the breech. The revolver has the oval brass trigger guard and rectangular cylinder stop slots which are characteristic of 3rd Dragoon revolvers. The top barrel flat is roll-stamped with the legend: "-ADDRESS SAML COLT, NEW-YORK CITY" in one line reading toward the breech. The left side of the frame is roll-stamped: "COLTS/PATENT/US" in three lines."

I have found several comments on various gun collector web sites which describe the US Ordnance Department contract under which this gun was manufactured; they all quote or cite the book "Civil War Carbines, Volume II, The Early Years" by John D. McAulay, Published by Andrew Mawbray inc., RI, 1991. I have yet to find a copy of this book to verify the quotes but, I have no reason to doubt the source:

"Colt's third model dragoon with breech attachment (shoulder stock) along with his M1855 carbine was tested at the Washington Arsenal on February 18, 1858." "The Board concluded that both the Colt pistol with breech attachment and the carbine were superior to any small arms currently in cavalry service and recommended: 'That Colt's pistol (with breech attachment) and ammunition be adopted for the cavalry service; and that each trooper be furnished with two pistols, adjusted to the same breech, the barrel of each pistol to be eight inches long, of the calibre of the army revolver. ...That one pistol be worn on the right side of the soldier, in a pouch attached to the sabre belt, and the other in a holster on the right side of the saddle; and that the breech attachment be carried in a saddle pouch attached to the left side of the rear of the saddle.'.

Secretary of War John Floyd, ordered 924 caliber .44 Third Model Dragoons with 462 detachable shoulder stocks from Colt on 28 June 1858 at $50.00 per set. These revolvers were issued early in 1859 to five companies of the 2nd US Dragoons, under the command of Major Charles May on duty in California.

At the outbreak of the Civil War, the bulk of the 2nd Dragoons regiment transferred east. On August 3, 1861, the Dragoons were re-designated the 2nd United States Cavalry. Brigaded with other Regular cavalry regiments and at times volunteers, the regiment fought in the campaigns of the Army of the Potomac.

17310_Grid.jpg
 
Copperhead-mi beat me to it but I've heard pretty much the same thing. Colt Generation ll were not made on Colt machinery. Just assembled from Italian parts at Colts plant. I could be wrong on this, Pietta I think
 
That makes sense to me and grasshopper has lots to learn. What I don't understand is the lack of any stamps anywhere on the gun and parts that are not just the matching serial #'s. Then of course the Sam Colt etc stamps on the top of the barrel. I always understood if gun parts such as the barrel, frame, etc were made overseas, they had to be stamped. I had heard the latter part of production was indeed as you are describing. But also understood that the first year or so was all done by Colt. I can't find where I read that, but shall look for it.
 
That makes sense to me and grasshopper has lots to learn. What I don't understand is the lack of any stamps anywhere on the gun and parts that are not just the matching serial #'s. Then of course the Sam Colt etc stamps on the top of the barrel. I always understood if gun parts such as the barrel, frame, etc were made overseas, they had to be stamped. I had heard the latter part of production was indeed as you are describing. But also understood that the first year or so was all done by Colt. I can't find where I read that, but shall look for it.

I believe this requirement was enacted in 1994.
 
Here is a quote from chapter four, "Pistols Now in Use", from "The Gunsmith's Manual" published in 1883. " Next among the repeaters, in point of scarcity, is the Colt's revolver of the earliest patent... It is fired by means of percussion caps... Though inconvenient, compared to the cartridge pistol of more modern make, the old Colt's revolver is yet an excellent arm. There are houses still making revolvers on the same plan." So it would seem that there were still cap and ball revolvers being made as late as 1883, and perhaps later. I believe the old guns were used sporadically up to the very early 1900's, but it would have been very unusual at that point.
 
It is popular to say the .36 and now the .38 are too weak to get the job done. Tutt was a one shot instant kill at 75 yards and buffalo were killed with them. I have read that when hunting buffalo the round ball was used, not the pointed "bullet". BTW while the ball starts as a .375 the chamber compresses it on loading.
The round ball tends to impart more of its energy on the target because of its shape. The 36cal Navy was perfectly adequate for self defence. Many men were killed with the 31cal Colt's pocket revolvers. It's all in how you look at it. We've been convinced over the years that more power is better. I'm not going to disagree with that, but that doesn't mean the less powerful weapons aren't effective. The .32 automatic is a good example.
 
Yes, Polloco, I hear you. If somebody shot me with a 22 or a 36...and I found about about it? I'd be pretty upset. I recently bought a black powder support kit (mold, horn, etc.) for an original Army and, cleary, the seller had been using the Army up until 20 years ago. Best way to tell how prevalent they were more recently imo is to see how many were sold back then.
 
Kirk, I agree with what you say but I would change "The .36 navy was perfectly adequate" to "The .36 navy is perfectly adequate."

jimccar2, just for the record, the largest animals I have ever personally seen killed were steers shot by a butcher. They in fact never found out they had been shot with a .22 (short). The kill was instant.
 
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Kirk, I agree with what you say but I would change "The .36 navy was perfectly adequate" to "The .36 navy is perfectly adequate."
Sorry, that was a major error on my part(isn't it amazing how one word can make such a difference lol). But yes, I agree that the .36 colt navy is still a perfectly viable firearm for self defence. If concealability weren't a issue, I would carry mine often. I have carried my 1848 Colt pocket model many times.
 
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