Edged Wpns Can anyone tell me what kind of short sword this is?

Joined
Apr 28, 2021
Just trying to find a little history of this old sword I have? Thanks!

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thomas aagaard

1st Lieutenant
Joined
Nov 19, 2013
Location
Denmark
Its based on the French 1831.
In the 1840ties it was used by a number of armies in Europe in a few different designs.

At some point the Prussians started to use it in a single edged version.
During the 1st Sleswig war in 1848-50 the "german" rebels used it as their standard infantry sidearm.
When the war ended most of their arms and equipment was put into storage and the "Danish" government army decided in 1853 to use it as the standard sidearm for the infantry. (called "Sidearm model 1854" in Danish service)

It is important to note that it was issued as a tool. And the soldiers where not to be trained in its use in combat... since that risked undermining their faith in the bayonet.

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Rhea Cole

1st Lieutenant
Joined
Nov 2, 2019
Location
Murfreesboro, Tennessee
The artillery sword was a Napoleonic relic. It was a machete, not a fighting sword. It is heavy. Even with a baldrick (shoulder strap) it is very clumsy & awkward. I have only worn mine list to try it out.

I have on file I don’t know how many first person accounts from artillerists. I don’t recall reading a single reference to artillery swords. If anybody has one, I would appreciate a copy of it.
 

Glen_C

Corporal
Joined
Apr 27, 2010
Location
Nipmuc USA
The walking bear is not Kuller and has been determined to be a Weyersburg brother/family mark during the WKC amalgamations. You will find the walking bear on a number short swords, often theatrical and even a musician sword I own stamped Germany.

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Found on leather grip 1860sf and fraternal short swords as well.

Cheers
GC
 

James N.

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It's a French-style infantry short sword with spurious Confederate markings.
I was running out of time yesterday when I posted, so will elaborate:

Around the time of the American Revolution in the 1770's the French adopted this basic pattern of blade for their foot artillery (not the mounted arm), but having a long-necked eagle head and crossguard for the hilt; this pattern continued through the Napoleonic Wars. The 1831 version referenced here was a BAD idea forced upon infantry soldiers to replace the curved short sword or sabre-briquet some units had carried during the same period. (A bad idea because it was heavier and atrociously balanced, giving it its popular name coup-choux or "cabbage chopper".)

Naturally, since it was French and therefore fashionable, WE also copied it in the familiar M.1832 Ames Artillery Short Sword worn by the sergeant of heavy or garrison artillery below. Equally stupidly, we also inflicted it on infantrymen in the 1830's who were supposed to be wearing it while slogging through the Florida swamps chasing Seminoles! After a mercifully relatively short period of time that particular bit of tomfoolery was abandoned and the swords reverted to strictly garrison artillery duty, lasting in the Official Regulations all the way to 1872 when they were finally relegated to the dustbin. Why the Confederates even bothered copying these is something of a mystery, but it is speculated that at least some were used as "substitute" CS Navy cutlasses!

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mofederal

Major
Joined
Jun 27, 2017
Location
Southeast Missouri
I hate to say it, but the bear looks like a Polar Bear. The same look as the North Russia WWI patch/insignia. If nothing else you could at least beat someone to death with the blade. The French soldiers didn't like the blade either. The early version of the short sword much better looking than the later version, which we adopted in 1832. I would not be surprised if the French didn't like the blade much either. The French used the short sword from the 1770's to around 1867.

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Joined
Mar 21, 2016
Location
Northern Virginia
The walking bear is not Kuller and has been determined to be a Weyersburg brother/family mark during the WKC amalgamations. You will find the walking bear on a number short swords, often theatrical and even a musician sword I own stamped Germany.

Found on leather grip 1860sf and fraternal short swords as well.

Cheers
GC
I also find a lot of walking bear stamps on import swords from around the turn of the century, esp on M. C. Lilley swords; these all appear to be WKC products. I understand, however, earlier swords with this mark were produced by Kuller. Apparently WKC purchased Kuller's works at some point including the rights to the mark. (I'm basing this all on hear-say however and have no firm evidence of any of it.)
 
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James N.

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I hate to say it, but the bear looks like a Polar Bear. The same look as the North Russia WWI patch/insignia. If nothing else you could at least beat someone to death with the blade. The French soldiers didn't like the blade either. The early version of the short sword much better looking than the later version, which we adopted in 1832. I would not be surprised if the French didn't like the blade much either. The French used the short sword from the 1770's to around 1867.

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The Napoleonic-era eagle-headed sword was probably abandoned during the Restoration (of the Monarchy) period because the eagle emblem was so closely identified by then with Napoleon even though the design of the sword itself pre-dated the French Revolution.
 

Glen_C

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Joined
Apr 27, 2010
Location
Nipmuc USA
The eagle handled artillery sword was a 1771 model. The French 1816 is the sword the US modeled our 1832 after. The French 1831 _infantry_ glaive had a blade with no fullers and shares a blade shape much like the US m1841 cutlass.
 

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