Bought an 1860 Cavlery Sword Interesting markings need info and value

Randy Friend

Cadet
Joined
Jul 31, 2013
I recently acquired an 1860 Cavelry sword. I was told that it was Civil War era. I know very little about in other than it is a Roby and it appears to be undated. ANy information about it’s history, use and value etc. would be greatly appreciated.
 

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A value for this cavalry sword would be exactly what you paid for it :smile:

Although not updated in a decade, you can get a fair idea from this guide
http://swordrestorationtn.com/values.htm
and also looking at sold prices on ebay, or what some expect to sell at.

The arched Roby Chelmsford reads as it may be an 1863, '64 or '65. I can't speak as to what the other marks designate other than it looks to have had a New York life.

Although a bit different looking (straighter grip with extra wire), it is a light vs heavy m1840. The Roby business was all but done after the war and had been a late starter in the sword business. I would not put a premium on anything I see of this sword. Less common than the Ames, or Rhode Island's Mansfield&Lamb but not really scarce in the grand scheme of things. While the other marks probably tell a story, I'm not sure they really add any extra value.

One of my contentions is Roby importing swords from Germany but I can't prove it.

A Roby bowie on the other hand, oo la la :smile: I have a scarce form of the Roby musician swords but I'd love to stumble on a bowie at garage sale pricing.

Cheers
GC
 
One of the markings looks like crossed nautical flags to me. What nautical flags would be doing on a cavalry saber is beyond me, so don't pay much attention to that observation.
 
It sword is indeed a CW Roby, the scabbard is another question. The marking are for the 2nd New York Signal Corp unit.
 
The insignia is the 2nd NY Signal Corps

2nd Cavalry Regiment
Civil War
Harris Light Cavalry; Seventh United States; New York State Cavalry

History
The following is taken from New York in the War of the Rebellion, 3rd ed. Frederick Phisterer. Albany: J. B. Lyon Company, 1912.

Mustered in: August 9 to October 8,1861
Mustered out: June 5, 1865

July 25, 1861, Co1. J. Mansfield Davies received authority from the War Department to recruit a regiment of cavalry. He recruited this regiment and organized it at Scarsdale; it was mustered in the service of the United States for three years, between August 9 and October 8, 1861. It was originally known as the Harris Light Cavalry; the War Department designated it, October 26, 1861, the 7th Regiment of Cavalry in the service of the United States, but when the regiment was turned over to the State as one of the State organizations, it was numbered the 2d Regiment of N. Y. Volunteer Cavalry. At the expiration of its term' of service those entitled thereto were discharged and August 29, 1864, the regiment was consolidated into a battalion of four companies, A, B, C and D, and, composed of veterans and recruits, retained in the service. In September and October, 1864, eight new companies joined, raising the battalion to a regimental organization again; these companies had been recruited for a service of one year.

The companies were recruited principally: A at New York city, Hartford, Conn., and Newton, N. J.; B at Newton and Deckertown, N. J., and at Newburgh, Troy, Watertown and Port Jervis; C and D Connecticut Squadron at Hartford, Conn.; E at New York city, Troy, Fort Edward and Cambridge; F at Covington, Ind., Fairhaven, Vt., Troy and Richfield Springs; G at New York city, Newburgh and Fort Edward; H at Chambersburg, Ind.; I at Lafayette, Ind.; K at Scranton, Pa., Hampton, Newark and Rockaway, N. J.. New York city, Troy and Richfield Springs; L at New York city, Hudson, Troy, Fort Ann, Fort Edward and Litchfield; and M at New York city, Newburgh Plattsburgh and Port Henry. The companies raised in 1864 were recruited principally: E Ticonderoga Cavalry Company-at Plattsburgh and Ticonderoga; F at Elmira and Syracuse; G and H at Manlius, Rochester, Elbridge, Onondaga, Syracuse, Cicero, Pompey, DeWitt, Chenango, Spafford, Lafayette, Albany, Salina, Skaneateles and Geddes; I at Hart's Island, Kingston, Poughkeepsie, Jamaica, Tarrytown and Albany; K at Mt. Morris, Goshen, Farmington, Poughkeepsie, Avon, Hopewell and Elmira; Land M at New York city and Brooklyn.

The regiment left the State in September and October, 1861, and served in McDowell's Division, Army of the Potomac, from October, 1861; with the 3d Division, 1st Corps, Army of the Potomac, from March, 1862; with King's Division, Department Rappahannock, from May, 1862; in Cavalry Brigade, 2d Division, 3d Corps, Army of Virginia, from June, 1862; in Bayard's Cavalry Brigade, Army of the Potomac, from September, 1862 (Companies A and B, I and K, in 3d Division, 1st Corps, Army of the Potomac, in September and October, 1862); in Gregg's Cavalry Brigade, Army of the Potomac, from December 15, 1862; in 1st Brigade, 3d Division, Cavalry Corps, Army of the Potomac, from February II, 1863 (a battalion with 1st Brigade, 1st Division, 4th Corps, on the Peninsula, Va., from May to July, 1863); in 2d Brigade, 2d Division, Cavalry, Army of the Potomac, from June 14, 1863; in the 1st Brigade, 3d Division, Cavalry Corps, Army of the Potomac, from August 12, 1863; Cavalry, Army of the Shenandoah, from October, 1864, and with the Army of the Potomac from March, 1865. Commanded by Co1. Alanson M. Randol, Companies E, F, G, H, I and K were mustered out June 5, 1865, and the remainder of the regiment, June 23, 1865, at Alexandria, Va.

During its service the regiment lost by death, killed in action, 7 officers, 67 enlisted men; died of wounds received in action, 2 officers, 47 enlisted men; died of disease and other causes, 3 officers, 246 enlisted men; total, 12 officers, 360 enlisted men; aggregate, 372; of whom 1 officer and 106 enlisted men died in the hands of the enemy.
 
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Personally, I see this sword in a different light. It was probably new unissued old stock when New York State requisitioned Cavalry Swords for the use of their fledgling Signal Corps. The markings are a 2nd NY Signal Corps unit, and as such someone should be able to turn up some information using that, and the crossed Signal Flags, as a starting point. I have explained to many Civil War collectors that these swords had a much longer life after the Civil War than they did during the Civil War. This example could very well date into the Spanish American War. I see it as having a premium because of the New York Signal Corps markings.....the likes of which I have never seen before.
J.
 
@Jobe Holiday is spot on with the fact that many CW items were still used by States long after the war. The Signal Corp marking are indeed way post war as the patina and fonts are different to CW period markings. Still a great piece with the 2nd NY Signal Corp stamp.
 
Links to information about the Signal Corps during the Civil War. I wonder if the markings on my sword could possibly be from the Civil War era? Also there are the numerals 55 with a larger number 9 at the base of one side of the handle on the left rear portion. You can see the numbers on one of the pics. Does anyone know what that might indicate?

http://www.civilwarsignals.org/pages/signal/signalpages/insignia/insignia.html

http://www.civilwarsignals.org/pages/signal/signalpages/weapons.htmlt


http://www.civilwarsignals.org/pages/signal/signalpages/comtime.html



Also; Wikipedia Search Signal Corps in the American Civil War
 
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The 55 and 9 are rack #. The Signal Corp marking are NOT Civil War but from the look of the fonts I saying Late Indian War or Spanish American War. The tell tell is when did the state of New York create is Signal Corp.
 
The markings are way post war and the US Signal Corps suffered greatly after the ACW, as there was basically no need for them. The advent of the telegraph's commercial success almost rendered them obsolete. They actually were charged with becoming the nations first weather service, in the 1870s, though they retained the moniker US Signal Corps.

Rebbeca Robins Rains, in her wonderfully researched "Getting the Message Through" goes into detail about the Signal Corps. The Spanish American War saw the Corps as not much more than a company and had to rely on the experience of National Guardsmen with Signal Corps experience. Due to a lack of transportation they could not take their horses with them to Cuba and had to carry communications wire by hand.

The sword's value is based upon what someone would be willing to pay, if you were able to find a Signals aficionado, who is a Civil War buff all the better, but as Glen C states, the value is what you paid for it.

I have mentioned before, a Sharps carbine that I purchased based on its Civil War, Indian War and movie heritage, when it came time to sell, I was severely disappointed. My carbine was worth what someone was willing to pay, I was unable to find the ACW, IW and movie buff all wrapped into one.

I love the piece as it is one seldom encountered and I would venture the NY State Archives would love to see it.
 
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