Restricted Board votes to remove Confederate monument from Linn Park - AL

unionblue

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Location
Ocala, FL (as of December, 2015).
Back in the day maybe so UB, but today where are they? why have the African-American groups not stepped up and provided funding for African-American monuments/memorials?

Where are they ?

View attachment 72517
Respectfully,
William

William,

No, recent events in Charleston have shown that African-Americans might have a tad more to worry about than monuments, wouldn't you agree?

Sincerely,
Unionblue
 

jgoodguy

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Back in the day maybe so UB, but today where are they? why have the African-American groups not stepped up and provided funding for African-American monuments/memorials?

Where are they ?

View attachment 72517
Respectfully,
William

Maybe they have no such need. The history of these monuments to a great extent is a nation trying to rationalize the defeat of his military, ideology and the deaths/injury of so many of its men.
 

redbob

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Feb 18, 2013
Location
Hoover, Alabama
To gain the most publicity possible, the Park Board acted in haste and now the Legal Department is trying to determine if and how the monument can be removed.
 

jgoodguy

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I would assume it would be demolished.

What little history I am aware of indicates a storage in a city warehouse or lot. IMHO, if there is insufficient interest in saving it, that fact will be very significant.

My bet is that the cost of moving and relocating will be covered by someone.
 

jgoodguy

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To gain the most publicity possible, the Park Board acted in haste and now the Legal Department is trying to determine if and how it can be removed.

Gotta start somewhere. IMHO the procedure is normal, got to vote first and then get the legal eagles going. Publicity is a bonus.

Personally the logic of leaving Confederate monuments in the mercy of the descendents of slaves and Hispanics who do not care is lacking and something will have to be done. Shared responsibility, context tablets or movement to a more congenital location are possiblites.

I can easily imagine a solemn march of reenactors and living historians accompanying that monument to a more protected place.
 

ForeverFree

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Feb 6, 2010
Location
District of Columbia
Back in the day maybe so UB, but today where are they? why have the African-American groups not stepped up and provided funding for African-American monuments/memorials?

Where are they ?

View attachment 72517
Respectfully,
William

WR,

First things first. African American history is American history. People of all backgrounds should be interested in furthering the accurate commemoration of US history. All Americans should ensure that the history we see in the public space is correct, fair, and balanced.

As to your question: my understanding is that many African Americans have stepped up and provided funding and support for various commemoration projects across the country. I don't know the details of all the various commemoration projects, and it's not like there's a database where we can get this information. I can only share some anecdotes.

0.jpg

Dr. Frank Smith, at right, in front of the African American Civil War Monument in Washington, DC

In the case of the African American Civil War Memorial in Washigton, DC, many African Americans did provide financial support. The main person behind the installation of the monument was Dr Frank Smith, an African American, a former member of the District of Columbia City Council, and current head of the African American Civil War Museum that is next door to the monument. I know Dr Smith, and have provided many hours of volunteer support to the Museum. To me, his efforts in erecting this monument and the museum make him a hero in terms of commemorating the African American Civil War Experience. Many other persons, including Gen Colin Powell, had some role in this project, and helped raise funds for it.

Of note: Several (most?) of the Board of Directors of the African American Civil War Museum (who have engaged in fundraising duties) are African American. I presume they provided financial support for the monument as well.

Expired Image Removed
This is the United States Colored Troops Memorial Statue in St Mary's County (southern Maryland). It was installed in mid-2012. The monument project was initiated by the Unified Committee for Afro-American Contributions (UCAC) Monument Committee, which I believe is a majority African American organization. On the website which discusses the monument, the UCAC and their partner, the Sons of Union Veterans of the Civil War (SUVCW), are identified as the main sponsors for the project.

african-american-monument-vicksburg.jpg



This is the African American Monument in Vicksburg National Military Park. In 1999, former Vicksburg Mayor Robert M. Walker, who is African American, proposed the placement of the monument in Vicksburg National Military Park. The city of Vicksburg, which is 60% black, provided $25,000 in funding. The state of Mississippi and others contributed to the project.

nashville-colored-troop-memorial.jpg

This is the United States Colored Troops National Monument, in Nashville National Cemetery. This article, from Civil War News.com, discusses how the monument came to be built:

The nine-foot cast bronze statue, created by Middle Tennessee artist Roy Butler, is one of a very few “freestanding monuments to African American soldiers in the country and the only one in a national facility,” according to Norm Hill (who is African American - ForeverFree), chairman of the Tennessee Historical Commission.

The project was coordinated by the African American Cultural Alliance of Nashville. The funds for the $80,000 project came from a variety of area contributors, while the Tennessee Historical Commission contributed $15,000.

“This was a grassroots effort which included church contributions, individual citizens, businesses and other Civil War groups including the Sons of Confederate Veterans (SCV),” said Hill. “This isn’t about North or South. That was then. Today this is about honoring our fallen soldiers.”

The idea for the memorial came up a few years ago during Black History Month at a Nashville university. Kwame Leo Lillard of the African American Cultural Alliance had longed for such recognition for years.

“I wanted us to never forget those men, most who fled slavery to fight and die for freedom,” he told the crowd. The contribution of the USCTs to the war deserves greater visibility, especially the role of the Tennesseans in the conflict, he pointed out.​

As discussed above, African American involvement in these projects was not merely substantial, it was essential: I don't know if these monuments would exist today if not for the efforts of the blacks folks who I am happy to identify by name. I don't know the financial history of all of the African American monument projects, but I suspect that African Americans had a substantial role in most of them.

A list of monument to black Civil War soldiers is here. Most of these were created in the past 25 years - that is, after the successes of the Civil Rights movement enabled the commemoration of African American history to be placed into the unsegregated public square.

Of course, more needs to be done. The commemoration of African American history in the South is 100 years behind where it might be if not for the conditions of Jim Crow. African Americans, to put it kindly, have a lot of competing issues and problems to deal with. One problem is that the history of the black Civil War experience has been invisible, not just in the public space, but also in US history books, until recently. The result is that, unfortunately, many African Americans don't even know they have a history to commemorate.

The bottom line is that African Americans must push back against their marginalization in history books and the public space, and avoid cynicism and despair concerning their ability to move forward. I want to share a piece by Norman Hill, who was (and might still be) a member of the Tennessee Historical Commission, the Tennessee Civil War Sesquicentennial Commission, and a United States Colored Troops re-enactor. Hill wrote this after visiting historic sites in Tennessee with content related to African Americans in the 19th century. I found this piece interesting and thought-provoking. (Thanks to the people at the Eagle News newspaper for granting permission to re-print this piece, which I cited on my blog):

I participate as a member of the Historic Commission of the State of Tennessee consisting of gubernatorial appointees from all the Grand Divisions. I am traveling today with the Historic Commission, visited the 13th US Colored Troops (USCT) exhibit at the Clement museum in Dickson, Tennessee, and the “Promised Land settlement” in Dickson, Tennessee.

Even as we visited the historic African American settlements, we were distracted by rebel flags and auto horns sounding “Dixie.” The implications were quite clear that the old guard is not going away.

Many black and white historians agree that it is our challenge to fill the void of our own silence, and recognize the legacy we have inherited. We should be cautious not to spend our valuable time and resources counteracting every Rebel flag, or worse to hide away and hope that we are not noticed. Visual opposition is necessary, but it must not be our only course of opposition.

It is time to put aside the fear of our past, and face the promise of our future. We must celebrate and promote the opening of the Bradley Museum because it is our legacy. We must also celebrate the “Promised Land Settlement” in Dickson County. Their representative visited and supported our Bradley Festival and we should return and support their efforts.

Monuments and memorials such as Bradley Museum, Promised Land, and Freedom Hill in Gallatin are a part of an even larger renaissance of Black culture and History that has included the USCT Museum in Washington, DC, and the recent CBS Broadcast “Who do you think you are” featuring Vanessa Williams’ family history and revealing a USCT relative, as well as one of the first Black members of the Tennessee Legislature.

All over the Middle East, people are pushing back years of fear and suppression to express their desire for freedom. We are not immune from the implications and we must participate in our own re-awakening.

We are fortunate to be alive to witness and participate in the revival of our own Heritage and Pride.​

The monuments I noted earlier in the post are part of the revival. I hope that people of all backgrounds and histories can take part in this. The road from being the lowly, as Harriet Beecher Stowe put it, to being acknowledged on a monument in the public space is steep in its climb, but ultimately, it is beneficial for us all. This is a revival where everyone can fit under the tent.

- Alan
 
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Rob9641

Captain
Annual Winner
Joined
Jun 7, 2010
Location
Maryland
Is everyone taking crazy pills? I understood the feelings of people who wanted to remove the CBF from government buildings, but now this thing is going off the rails. Walmart is removing anything remotely related to the flag, TV Land is pulling the Dukes of Hazard, and now historical monuments? Good grief! I don't particularly want to fly the Confederate flag, but I sure don't want to be told I can't!

Nobody told you you can't and nobody is going to. Whatever Walmart, etc. do is their right and trust me, if it hurts the bottom line, they will rethink things. Take a deep breath. The sky is not falling.
 

18thVirginia

Major
Joined
Sep 8, 2012
Back in the day maybe so UB, but today where are they? why have the African-American groups not stepped up and provided funding for African-American monuments/memorials?

Where are they ?

View attachment 72517
Respectfully,
William

William, how can you be sure that the Confederate monuments were all funded with private money? Perhaps the one in my county that was built in 1871 was, but the Jefferson Davis monument in New Orleans has some documentation of using public funds, and I'd guess that was true of many Confederate monuments around the country which were installed in the public square some time ago.

I looked at the history of the Confederate Monument at the Alabama Capitol. It was erected in 1898. Funding for the monument included $20,000 in the form of two grants from the state legislature, $10,000 contributed by the Ladies Memorial Association of Alabama, $6,755 from the Historical and Monumental Association of Alabama that was formed in 1865 to support the erection of this monument, and $5,000 from politicians. Wikipedia. The state portion would equal $1,450,000 in 2015 dollars--would fund a pretty nice African American Civil War monument, wouldn't you think?

Also, where would the African American monuments have been placed that they would have contributed to this significant part of Southern history? In another thread, Forever Free referenced the severe opposition in Mississippi to placing the USCT monument in a National Military Park, run by and maintained with federal staff and funds.

In a thread about monuments in Shreveport, La., it's mentioned that the Confederate flag still flew over the local courthouse in 2011. How likely was it that parish officials there would allow a monument to African Americans in the Civil War in a prominent place where it could contribute to our awareness of history?

The Colfax Massacre in Colfax, Louisiana still has a state historical marker which reads, "On this site in 1873 occurred the Colfax Riot in which 3 white men and 150 negroes were slain. This event on April 13 ,1873 marked the end of carpetbag misrule in the South." Since the local African American community has not been able to get this marker changed since it was placed in the early 1950s, how likely is it that a monument to African American USCTs would have been allowed in this community?
 
Last edited:

W. Richardson

Captain
Joined
Jun 29, 2011
Location
Mt. Gilead, North Carolina
WR,

First things first. African American history is American history. People of all backgrounds should be interested in furthering the accurate commemoration of US history. All Americans should ensure that the history we see in the public space is correct, fair, and balanced.

As to your question: my understanding is that many African Americans have stepped up and provided funding and support for various commemoration projects across the country. I don't know the details of all the various commemoration projects, and it's not like there's a database where we can get this information. I can only share some anecdotes.

0.jpg

Dr. Frank Smith, at right, in front of the African American Civil War Monument in Washington, DC

In the case of the African American Civil War Memorial in Washigton, DC, many African Americans did provide financial support. The main person behind the installation of the monument was Dr Frank Smith, an African American, a former member of the District of Columbia City Council, and current head of the African American Civil War Museum that is next door to the monument. I know Dr Smith, and have provided many hours of volunteer support to the Museum. To me, his efforts in erecting this monument and the museum make him a hero in terms of commemorating the African American Civil War Experience. Many other persons, including Gen Colin Powell, had some role in this project, and helped raise funds for it.

Of note: Several (most?) of the Board of Directors of the African American Civil War Museum (who have engaged in fundraising duties) are African American. I presume they provided financial support for the monument as well.

Expired Image Removed
This is the United States Colored Troops Memorial Statue in St Mary's County (southern Maryland). It was installed in mid-2012. The monument project was initiated by the Unified Committee for Afro-American Contributions (UCAC) Monument Committee, which I believe is a majority African American organization. On the website which discusses the monument, the UCAC and their partner, the Sons of Union Veterans of the Civil War (SUVCW), are identified as the main sponsors for the project.

african-american-monument-vicksburg.jpg



This is the African American Monument in Vicksburg National Military Park. In 1999, former Vicksburg Mayor Robert M. Walker, who is African American, proposed the placement of the monument in Vicksburg National Military Park. The city of Vicksburg, which is 60% black, provided $25,000 in funding. The state of Mississippi and others contributed to the project.

nashville-colored-troop-memorial.jpg

This is the United States Colored Troops National Monument, in Nashville National Cemetery. This article, from Civil War News.com, discusses how the monument came to be built:

The nine-foot cast bronze statue, created by Middle Tennessee artist Roy Butler, is one of a very few “freestanding monuments to African American soldiers in the country and the only one in a national facility,” according to Norm Hill (who is African American - ForeverFree), chairman of the Tennessee Historical Commission.

The project was coordinated by the African American Cultural Alliance of Nashville. The funds for the $80,000 project came from a variety of area contributors, while the Tennessee Historical Commission contributed $15,000.

“This was a grassroots effort which included church contributions, individual citizens, businesses and other Civil War groups including the Sons of Confederate Veterans (SCV),” said Hill. “This isn’t about North or South. That was then. Today this is about honoring our fallen soldiers.”

The idea for the memorial came up a few years ago during Black History Month at a Nashville university. Kwame Leo Lillard of the African American Cultural Alliance had longed for such recognition for years.

“I wanted us to never forget those men, most who fled slavery to fight and die for freedom,” he told the crowd. The contribution of the USCTs to the war deserves greater visibility, especially the role of the Tennesseans in the conflict, he pointed out.​

As discussed above, African American involvement in these projects was not merely substantial, it was essential: I don't know if these monuments would exist today if not for the efforts of the blacks folks who I am happy to identify by name. I don't know the financial history of all of the African American monument projects, but I suspect that African Americans had a substantial role in most of them.

A list of monument to black Civil War soldiers is here. Most of these were created in the past 25 years - that is, after the successes of the Civil Rights movement enabled the commemoration of African American history to be placed into the unsegregated public square.

Of course, more needs to be done. The commemoration of African American history in the South is 100 years behind where it might be if not for the conditions of Jim Crow. African Americans, to put it kindly, have a lot of competing issues and problems to deal with. One problem is that the history of the black Civil War experience has been invisible, not just in the public space, but also in US history books, until recently. The result is that, unfortunately, many African Americans don't even know they have a history to commemorate.

The bottom line is that African Americans must push back against their marginalization in history books and the public space, and avoid cynicism and despair concerning their ability to move forward. I want to share a piece by Norman Hill, who was (and might still be) a member of the Tennessee Historical Commission, the Tennessee Civil War Sesquicentennial Commission, and a United States Colored Troops re-enactor. Hill wrote this after visiting historic sites in Tennessee with content related to African Americans in the 19th century. I found this piece interesting and thought-provoking. (Thanks to the people at the Eagle News newspaper for granting permission to re-print this piece, which I cited on my blog):

I participate as a member of the Historic Commission of the State of Tennessee consisting of gubernatorial appointees from all the Grand Divisions. I am traveling today with the Historic Commission, visited the 13th US Colored Troops (USCT) exhibit at the Clement museum in Dickson, Tennessee, and the “Promised Land settlement” in Dickson, Tennessee.

Even as we visited the historic African American settlements, we were distracted by rebel flags and auto horns sounding “Dixie.” The implications were quite clear that the old guard is not going away.

Many black and white historians agree that it is our challenge to fill the void of our own silence, and recognize the legacy we have inherited. We should be cautious not to spend our valuable time and resources counteracting every Rebel flag, or worse to hide away and hope that we are not noticed. Visual opposition is necessary, but it must not be our only course of opposition.

It is time to put aside the fear of our past, and face the promise of our future. We must celebrate and promote the opening of the Bradley Museum because it is our legacy. We must also celebrate the “Promised Land Settlement” in Dickson County. Their representative visited and supported our Bradley Festival and we should return and support their efforts.

Monuments and memorials such as Bradley Museum, Promised Land, and Freedom Hill in Gallatin are a part of an even larger renaissance of Black culture and History that has included the USCT Museum in Washington, DC, and the recent CBS Broadcast “Who do you think you are” featuring Vanessa Williams’ family history and revealing a USCT relative, as well as one of the first Black members of the Tennessee Legislature.

All over the Middle East, people are pushing back years of fear and suppression to express their desire for freedom. We are not immune from the implications and we must participate in our own re-awakening.

We are fortunate to be alive to witness and participate in the revival of our own Heritage and Pride.​

The monuments I noted earlier in the post are part of the revival. I hope that people of all backgrounds and histories can take part in this. The road from being the lowly, as Harriet Beecher Stowe put it, to being acknowledged on a monument in the public space is steep in its climb, but ultimately, it is beneficial for us all. This is a revival where everyone can fit under the tent.

- Alan


Thank you Alan as your post is a very informative post and I was able to learn quite a bit from it. I am glad to see that several African-American Monuments/Memorials have been erected and I agree that more are needed as it is a part of the American history, my history, and my American Heritage.......So this is great to read of.

Now, I agree African-American history is American history and they should be honored and remembered for their sacrifices. I also agree that African-Americans should, as you stated, push back against their marginalization in history books and the public space.

We simply can not eradicate a part of anyone's history just because they do not agree with it or that they find it offensive. In our great land we can find groups of people that would be offended by just about anything, George Washington, the UN, Disneyland, the American Flag, churches, religions......................

We all of this nation have got to learn to live together, it will never be a perfect nation or world. Oppression of the African American race was a great tragedy and to some extent is still going on today, but not in the amount it once was, but attempting to eradicate another's heritage isn't going to end racism. If one's history/heritage can only survive due to the eradication of another then something is wrong, and racism and the hatred will never come close to ending.

However I have a couple of questions...........

1. Is not Confederate History American history?
2. Does the push back by African-Americans require the push away and removing Confederate or other American Monuments/Memorials? Am I not also American and deserve to have my history, American and Confederate remembered?


Respectfully,
William
 

NedBaldwin

Major
Joined
Feb 19, 2011
Location
California
1. Is not Confederate History American history?
2. Does the push back by African-Americans require the push away and removing Confederate or other American Monuments/Memorials? Am I not also American and deserve to have my history, American and Confederate remembered?
The Confederacy was a part of American history so if that i what you meant, then the answer 1 is yes.
Why and how the Confederate part of American history should be remembered is the issue.
 

NedBaldwin

Major
Joined
Feb 19, 2011
Location
California
...
The Colfax Massacre in Colfax, Louisiana still has a state historical marker which reads, "On this site in 1873 occurred the Colfax Riot in which 3 white men and 150 negroes were slain. This event on April 13 ,1873 marked the end of carpetbag misrule in the South." ...

I have read that there is a monument in the cemetery to the 3 whites that died which states:
"IN LOVING REMEMBRANCE
ERECTED TO THE MEMORY OF
THE HEROES
STEPHEN DECATUR PARISH
JAMES WEST HADNOT
SIDNEY HARRIS
WHO FELL IN THE COLFAX
RIOT FIGHTING FOR
WHITE SUPREMACY

APRIL 13, 1873"

There is a honest memorial.
 

gem

2nd Lieutenant
Joined
Oct 26, 2012
Today, it seems incredible that Congress sanctioned a monument to so-called Faithful Slaves -- just blocks from the Lincoln Memorial, which had been dedicated only months earlier.

Although largely forgotten now, proposals for “Mammy” monuments were covered and debated extensively in newspapers across the nation. Supporters saw the “Mammy” as a figure uniting both African American and white by bonds of affection and unconditional love. In their eyes, the statue was a figure that could help heal the wounds of the Civil War. The statue was often described as “a racial peace monument.”1 Opponents saw the “Mammy memorial movement” as a sentimental recollection that allowed the history of the South to be falsely romanticized and the proposed statue itself as perpetuating a racial stereotype aimed to keep African Americans in low-status occupations.

http://www.readex.com/blog/remembering-“mammy-memorial-movement”-race-and-controversy-press

As you can see, people want to erect monuments with their own interests in mind. When people's interests change, so do the monuments.
 

W. Richardson

Captain
Joined
Jun 29, 2011
Location
Mt. Gilead, North Carolina
William, how can you be sure that the Confederate monuments were all funded with private money? Perhaps the one in my county that was built in 1871 was, but the Jefferson Davis monument in New Orleans has some documentation of using public funds, and I'd guess that was true of many Confederate monuments around the country which were installed in the public square some time ago.

I looked at the history of the Confederate Monument at the Alabama Capitol. It was erected in 1898. Funding for the monument included $20,000 in the form of two grants from the state legislature, $10,000 contributed by the Ladies Memorial Association of Alabama, $6,755 from the Historical and Monumental Association of Alabama that was formed in 1865 to support the erection of this monument, and $5,000 from politicians. Wikipedia. The state portion would equal $1,450,000 in 2015 dollars--would fund a pretty nice African American Civil War monument, wouldn't you think?

Also, where would the African American monuments have been placed that they would have contributed to this significant part of Southern history? In another thread, Forever Free referenced the severe opposition in Mississippi to placing the USCT monument in a National Military Park, run by and maintained with federal staff and funds?

In a thread about monuments in Shreveport, La., it's mentioned that the Confederate flag still flew over the local courthouse in 2011. How likely was it that parish officials there would allow a monument to African Americans in the Civil War in a prominent place where it could contribute to our awareness of history?

The Colfax Massacre in Colfax, Louisiana still has a state historical marker which reads, "On this site in 1873 occurred the Colfax Riot in which 3 white men and 150 negroes were slain. This event on April 13 ,1873 marked the end of carpetbag misrule in the South." Since the local African American community has not been able to get this marker changed since it was placed in the early 1950s, how likely is it that a monument to African American USCTs would have been allowed in this community?


18thvirginia,

Thank you for your post and valuable information. Seems that some government funding was used and I am more than fine with some government funding going toward African-American Monuments/Memorials today.

Was the Ladies Memorial Association of Alabama, and the Historical and Monumental Association of Alabama government related? They appear to be civilian organizations.
As to the Colfax Massacre, not a riot, as that is what it was a massacre, I am not sure how likely it is that a monument to African-American USCT would be allowed. Has any group attempted recently to fund and place one?

Also I would think it would be left up to the community. The racial makeup of the town was 67.81% African-American, 30.98% White, 0.06%, Native American, 0.06% Pacific Islander, 0.06% from other races, and 1.02% from two or more races, according to Wikipedia. So I am not sure where the opposition is coming from, is it from state government?, or Federal government?

As I have stated time and time again..............

1. I am for removal of Confederate icons from all government property, and now agree that any Confederate Monuments/Memorials should be moved from government property to an appropriate and approved locations, but now feel at the cost of the government.
2. I am and always have been for African-American Monuments/Memorials honoring their Heritage/History,.....but not at the cost of eradicating My Confederate Heritage or anyone's Heritage........Why can't all be celebrated and honored by those who wish to do so?................not forcing anyone to honor or celebrate a heritage/history they do not wish to, but the argument that some/most of the African-American community uses, can and could be used by groups of others.......

I am in no way attempting to state or make it appear that you believe that one's heritage being honored has to destroy another's heritage..............
I truly believe you do not believe in the eradication of one heritage/history so it can be replaced by another's heritage/history.

Do not all nations have people that hate? Does that mean all the people of the nation hate? Do all religions have people that hate? Does that mean that all people of that religion hate? Of course not, and just because some of the people that celebrate Confederate Heritage hate, does not mean that all people who celebrate their Confederate Heritage hate or do so in a hateful manner. Some of the people that honor and celebrate their African-American Heritage hate, but that does mean all people who celebrate their African-American Heritage hate, of course not.

We who celebrate our Confederate Heritage without the hate are lumped in with the ones who do hate and that is unfair.
Can I change that ? No I can't because it is up to each individual to change how they see things and some on both sides are blind and will never see.

I wave the Confederate flag out of honor of my ancestors and I am accused of supporting slavery, the KKK, and of hatred.
Now, not wanting to, nor is it my intention to start a big stink or fuss. I assume, and I understand what assuming can do, your login name the 18thvirginia is due to you having ancestors in that regiment and that is your way of remembering/honoring them, but isn't that also honoring the Confederacy they fought for? A Confederacy that fought for slavery?
The same thing, I and many others, are accused of when I flag my Confederate flag ? I fly my Confederate flag, I visit Confederate monuments/memorials/graves to honor my ancestors that fought and died bravely, and some not so bravely............All gave some and some gave all on both sides !!! I honor all, Union, Rebel, Black, Scottish, German, Native American, Italian, Irish, Greek, Canadian, Hispanic, Hungarian, Asian.......Etc...Etc....

In closing I have learned a great deal in your post and others post as well. I hope to continuing to learn and improve my vision on history. That is one of the things we are all here on CivilWarTalk for.



18thvirginia, if anything I have stated here offends you then I truly do apologize, as that was not my intention. Mods if I am out of line then delete this post and I will utter no objection.

Thanks,

1st National Confederate Flag   1.jpg

Respectfully,
William
 
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