Restricted Board votes to remove Confederate monument from Linn Park - AL

E_just_E

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So they not only want the monument gone, they are looking for someone to pay its removal and store it? This is pretty ridiculous... And it is not a small monument:

8145508_G.jpg
 

donna

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As a member of the United Daughters of the Confederacy and Treasurer of the Ohio Division, I can tell you we don't have money to move all the Monuments and Statutes we helped get placed. It took years to get donations to put them up. This was done in early 1900s. Costs have skyrocketed since then.

However, we don't want them destroyed. I don't know what we will do.

At present we do charitable support for real daughters who need help, scholarship funds, help maintain graves of Confederates and other veterans, have educational seminars, and maintain our headquarters in Richmond. It takes a lot from dedicated and kind ladies to do this.

Moving monuments was never thought would occur.
 

E_just_E

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Here is the irony:

The City of Birmingham has a $5 million surplus...

from that link:

"The goal right now is to get the budget passed and use a large amount of that money to tackle eyesores around the city.

“This money will give us the shot in the arm that we can go ahead and proceed quickly and mowing those overgrown lots and taking
down abandon houses,” said Mayor Bell."
 

redbob

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So they not only want the monument gone, they are looking for someone to pay its removal and store it? This is pretty ridiculous... And it is not a small monument:

8145508_G.jpg
Flanking the monument in question are monuments honoring those who served in the Spanish American, WWI and near by one to those who served in the Revolutionary War. This is also the location where the City of Birmingham's Christmas tree is erected every year. Also, if they were to dig a little deeper they will learn that the park is named after a Confederate blockade runner, so I guess that they will need to rename the park also (as a little factoid, the park was named Woodrow Wilson Park until several years ago when the Linn family gave a great deal of money to redo the park).
 
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Pat Young

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Here is the Forrest billboard thread I referred to:

http://civilwartalk.com/threads/billboard-promoting-cw-tourism-in-selma.110379/

I advise folks to read what was written. The facile way folks think that because they could write racially neutral explanations for what was obviously a hostile billboard illustrates the kind of thinking that leads to such resentment in the African American community.

Instead of building alliances with African Americans in locales around the South to preserve important commemorative sites, there seems to be a thumb in the eye attitude by Heritagists. Honestly, telling blacks that "they are the real racists" is not likely to win friends among black voters who will now help decide the fate of many of these memorials.
 

W. Richardson

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What, precisely, is "Confederate Heritage"?


Confederate Heritage to me..............Is being able to honor My Confederate ancestors, Confederate Soldiers who fought for their beliefs, fighting for independence of a new nation and dying for it. Being able to honor them without me having to hide in a closet to do it, in this great land of freedom.
Am I, as an American not entitled to that? Can I not honor my Confederate Heritage just as African-Americans, Irish-Americans, Italian-Americans, German-Americans and pray tell even Scottish-Americans celebrate and honor their heritage? and we all know that no one's heritage is without shame to some degree...........

American Heritage has it's on shameful acts................Asks the Native Americans............

1st National Confederate Flag   1.jpg

Respectfully,
William
 

Scotsman

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Confederate Heritage to me..............Is being able to honor My Confederate ancestors, Confederate Soldiers who fought for their beliefs, fighting for independence of a new nation and dying for it. Being able to honor them without me having to hide in a closet to do it, in this great land of freedom.
Am I, as an American not entitled to that? Can I not honor my Confederate Heritage just as African-Americans, Irish-Americans, Italian-Americans, German-Americans and pray tell even Scottish-Americans celebrate and honor their heritage? and we all know that no one's heritage is without shame to some degree...........

American Heritage has it's on shameful acts................Asks the Native Americans............

View attachment 72361
Respectfully,
William

How does any of this stop you from your personal "honoring" of family?

It seems that you equate "Confederate Heritage" with public display of your romanticized view of history. What you are talking about is not historical study or preservation of historical objects, but your personal feelings. In that sense, you are fighting a losing battle, for most Americans do not choose to celebrate the soldiers or cause dedicated to breaking apart the country for the preservation of a slaveholding society 150 years ago.

Still, no one is preventing you from holding your own commemorations.
 

16thVA

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I think it would be interesting to hear from the historians of the War about their views on removing any monuments. Although I think they will duck the issue.
 

redbob

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At least one private group has already stepped up stating that they will take the monument at place it at an "appropriate" location, but City attorneys are not sure that this can be done.
 

Sons of Liberty

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Is everyone taking crazy pills? I understood the feelings of people who wanted to remove the CBF from government buildings, but now this thing is going off the rails. Walmart is removing anything remotely related to the flag, TV Land is pulling the Dukes of Hazard, and now historical monuments? Good grief! I don't particularly want to fly the Confederate flag, but I sure don't want to be told I can't!
 

Brendan

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There's also a certain irony here that there's a Spanish American War monument adjacent to this. American soldiers perpetrated a scorched earth policy in the Philippines as a result of that conflict, committing unspeakable atrocities when certain Filipinos decided that "liberation from Spanish rule" shouldn't have to mean annexation to the US empire. I'm not saying we should also remove that monument, anymore than I would advocate for removing Vietnam War monuments because I disagree with the motives behind that war. The larger point here (to me at least) is that these are American soldiers who responded to the call to arms from the leadership they were taught to trust. If we want to tear down the monuments to those politicians, great. But why take it out on dead enlisted men?
 

ForeverFree

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Your comment "Folks forget that black people can vote to remove the memorials that white people erected while denying blacks the vote."

Whether you meant to state it the way you did, I don't know.........But you made it a Black & White issue. That is why I referred to it as a racist attack and racist attacks are revenge seeking or vengeful. So maybe I misunderstood your comment.

I don't know if many people really understand what these monuments mean to African Americans. Regardless of whether you think that Confederates seceded over "states rights" or not, the fact is, many of them said that their goal for the CSA was to maintain a slave labor society, viz:

(1) Jefferson Davis' farewell address to the Senate, in January 1861:

…if I had not believed there was justifiable cause (for secession); if I had thought that Mississippi was acting without sufficient provocation, or without an existing necessity, I should still… because of my allegiance to the State… have been bound by her action. I, however, may be permitted to say that I do think she has justifiable cause, and I approve of her act.

...She has heard proclaimed the theory that all men are created free and equal, and this made the basis of an attack upon her social institutions; and the sacred Declaration of Independence has been invoked to maintain the position of the equality of the races.
(2) This is from Alexander Stephens' cornerstone speech:

...The new (Confederate) constitution has put at rest, forever, all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institution African slavery as it exists amongst us the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution.

...Our new government is founded upon …the ...idea; its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth. This truth has been slow in the process of its development, like all other truths in the various departments of science. It has been so even amongst us. Many who hear me, perhaps, can recollect well, that this truth was not generally admitted, even within their day. The errors of the past generation still clung to many as late as twenty years ago.​

(3) "A Declaration of the Immediate Causes which Induce and Justify the Secession of the State of Mississippi from the Federal Union." The text includes:

In the momentous step, which our State has taken of dissolving its connection with the government of which we so long formed a part, it is but just that we should declare the prominent reasons which have induced our course.
Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery - the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product, which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation.​
****
Now... put yourself in the mindset of Alabama African Americans, whose ancestors were enslaved. Would you, as a descendant of slaves, want to see a bunch of monuments in your face that glorify the people who wanted to create a nation that kept their forefathers in captivity? Would you want your children to come to a public square that glorified men whose goal was to keep people who looked like them in bondage?

This is not an anti-white sentiment, this is a movement against the glorification of a country and a citizenry that was dedicated to keeping them (African Americans) in slavery. I think there are many white folks who share that view. This is not to say that I personally want to remove these monuments myself. But I want to add some clarity as to why people have these emotions.

- Alan
 

ForeverFree

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In a multi-cultural Democracy, all voices should be heard, including opposing voices. Deleting certain voices because another group finds them offensive, will really leave us with only a singular voice, oppressing minority or unfashionable voices. And that voice can change as the majority or fashion changes.

Multi-cultural Democracy is what makes this country great. Let's keep it there and let's be inclusive instead of exclusive; otherwise we are taking the risk of being like the former Soviet Union...

I agree whole-heartedly. We have the problems we're having now precisely because Civil War monuments throughout the South speak with one singular voice, and because "unfashionable" voices were denied the opportunity to make their voices heard over the course of southern history.

I would tell people who are organizing to keep these monuments where they are: it is hard for people to buy the argument that you are out to protect southern heritage, when you show no concern at all for the fact that African American or Unionist heritage is invisible throughout the South. Instead of making an argument for preserving Confederate monuments, make arguments for a fair and balanced Civil War monument landscape, and make the commitment that you will work to ensure this new, fair, and balanced lanscape is created. If you cannot do this, expect some pushback.

- Alan
 

ole

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There can be no doubt that Lincoln wanted slavery gone. Whether or not he believed the black man to be inferior to the white is not sure. They are the words of a political speech delivered to a constituency which was clearly racist.

I don't know that that makes him a racist in the terms being flung about. He did clearly believe that everyone was entitled to the bread earned by their own labor.

There is and was an abhorrence of one man "owning" another one or several.

But that was then and this is now. Tossing about "Lincoln was a racist like everyone else was" is a reckless statement. There remains a significant feeling that a colored is not the equal of a person of European descent; i.e, a white.

I got a rude awakening at college many, many years ago, and I'm not going to say some of my best friends are black, but I certainly found them equal. I could not play the piano anywhere close to Johnny Myles, and there were those who were smarter than me, and there were those who fit in better than me.

And I've met a few rotters in about equal numbers as whites. In short, I don't see any inequality after they got off the plantation.
 

huskerblitz

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There's also a certain irony here that there's a Spanish American War monument adjacent to this. American soldiers perpetrated a scorched earth policy in the Philippines as a result of that conflict, committing unspeakable atrocities when certain Filipinos decided that "liberation from Spanish rule" shouldn't have to mean annexation to the US empire. I'm not saying we should also remove that monument, anymore than I would advocate for removing Vietnam War monuments because I disagree with the motives behind that war. The larger point here (to me at least) is that these are American soldiers who responded to the call to arms from the leadership they were taught to trust. If we want to tear down the monuments to those politicians, great. But why take it out on dead enlisted men?
I was going to mention something similar to monuments to other 'questionable' US wars. If we're looking at whitewashing history people better start stocking up because few wars have been what many may consider 'noble'.
 
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