Black Armed irregular resistance to theConfederacy

brass napoleon

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True their was black armed resistance but nothing compared to white armed resistance. The White Unionists simply had much more men and much more arms. They where opposed be regular CSA troops from time to time and where a major threat which I and others discussion the other thread. It is notable that when given the opportunity despite tremendous risks blacks would eagerly fight for their freedom. On the other hand fear of a slave rebellion tied down a lot of militia so they can't work their civilian jobs. All in all a win -win for the Union.
Leftyhunter

It's also worth noting that much of the black armed resistance did so under the auspices of the USCT. A smart way to do it, IMO, and another win-win for the Union.
 

leftyhunter

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It's also worth noting that much of the black armed resistance did so under the auspices of the USCT. A smart way to do it, IMO, and another win-win for the Union.
True. I just wanted to show that slaves would fight when given the opportunity and of course not all slaves could flee to Union lines. In historical hindsight the Union should of had the OSS like we did in WW2 but it would be a huge challenge to arm and equip guerrillas deep in CSA territory.
Leftyhunter
 

leftyhunter

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Should the Union Army have supported the practice by sending weapons and supplies to the irregulars?
Hi Major Bill ,
See my post #67 about how at least some union officers supported Unionist guerrillas in my thread on "Questions of effectiveness Union vs CSA guerrillas. M. Warren just added some very interesting info as well.
Leftyhunter
 

leftyhunter

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Not all active resistance by the slaves had to involve the use of firearms. Slaves in Mo where known to supply information to the Union on the whereabouts of CSA guerrillas. In Dale County Al a Mr. Columbus Holly would give CSA authorities information about deserter gangs. The head of one gang John Ward found his slaves eager to help his cause. The slaves carried Ward on their shoulders to Holly's window and then Ward could step on their back and fire a shot through his bedroom window killing Holly. The slaves then carried him back thus their was no scent or footprints that could lead to Wards capture. Slaves has a whole where well known to assist deserters, Unionist guerrillas and escaped Union prisoners.
Leftyhunter
 

leftyhunter

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From the Official Records:

PORT HUDSON, LA., February 5, 1864 - 10 p. m.

Brigadier-General STONE:

I am informed that a band of armed negroes are committing outrages at or near the Hermitage Landing, across the river, and some of the people ask protection. I have no cavalry to send. I think the people themselves should deal with the matter. I distrust most of them and believe they would betray my force into the hands of the enemy if they could. Some of them are no doubt honest.

GEO. L. ANDREWS,

Brigadier-General of Volunteers.​
There where what the Confederates called "Jayhawkers in parts of La. Many of the blacks where angry at being kidnapped by freelance bandits and being sold into slavery. Many former slave would in revenge attack white settlements . In May 1863 5o blacks where hung for "jayhawking in St Marys Parish. Source jcs-group-com/military/war1861 guerrilla.
Leftyhunter
 

M.Warren

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Two Union regiments that used deserters for what we would call special operation was the 2nd and 3rd Nc mounted Infantry US led by 24 year old Col.Kirk. I have some info on him in my thread about Union vs CSA guerrillas. The second would be the 2nd Fl Cavalry US which was partnered with a USCT Regiment. Their may of been others.
Leftyhunter
As you know all to well I also have a ton of info on Kirk if anyone is interested. I'll be glad to post links, upload pdf's etc. by request Lefty. I don't want to burn up bandwidth and storage if its not necessary though. As you mentioned before, A lot of it is in your other thread also.
 

M.Warren

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True. I just wanted to show that slaves would fight when given the opportunity and of course not all slaves could flee to Union lines. In historical hindsight the Union should of had the OSS like we did in WW2 but it would be a huge challenge to arm and equip guerrillas deep in CSA territory.
Leftyhunter
No doubt, sir. You'd more than likely be dooming the slaves and arming the enemy. We've learned that lesson over and over again throughout history.
 

leftyhunter

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As you know all to well I also have a ton of info on Kirk if anyone is interested. I'll be glad to post links, upload pdf's etc. by request Lefty. I don't want to burn up bandwidth and storage if its not necessary though. As you mentioned before, A lot of it is in your other thread also.
Hi m. Warren,
If you have the time that would be great. I think some other posters would be interested in Col.Kirk as well. I had my thread name changed to"Union vs CSA guerrillas so perhaps a student doing a research paper is more likely to google my thread and find some useful information. Only time will tell.
Conscription was I would argue the engine that drove many Southern white men to become mossbacks, Unionist guerrillas or join the Union Army. I don't know if the issues can be separated . I have a thread entitled"did conscription hurt or help the Confederacy" where I argue it hurt more then it helped and others of course argued the opposite.
Leftyhunter
 

M.Warren

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Hi m. Warren,
If you have the time that would be great. I think some other posters would be interested in Col.Kirk as well. I had my thread name changed to"Union vs CSA guerrillas so perhaps a student doing a research paper is more likely to google my thread and find some useful information. Only time will tell.
Conscription was I would argue the engine that drove many Southern white men to become mossbacks, Unionist guerrillas or join the Union Army. I don't know if the issues can be separated . I have a thread entitled"did conscription hurt or help the Confederacy" where I argue it hurt more then it helped and others of course argued the opposite.
Leftyhunter
It hurt more than it helped in Eastern TN, and Western NC for sure. Gov. Vance begged Davis and Bragg to lift conscription in the areas for that exact reason. I think I posted the official correspondence in your other thread. Of course Bragg being well.. Bragg, refused the Idea and pushed for Davis to do the same. In the end it was only lightened in WNC at least and had a noticeable effect on the civilian population no matter their views of the war. Many men enlisted to avoid conscription and made a bee line for the nearest Union line as soon as they saw the glitter of bayonets in the distance.

I'll look through my resources and get things together. I've gotten off that subject as of the last couple weeks and been focusing in other area's. I'll have to drag out my flash drive with the info and get it together. I'll try to get on it by tomorrow.
 

leftyhunter

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No doubt, sir. You'd more than likely be dooming the slaves and arming the enemy. We've learned that lesson over and over again throughout history.
That's an interesting point. I have a book which I don't have at the moment because a friend is borrowing it where the USN did supply Unionist guerrillas in Southern Fl with a fair amount of success. By the same token if the USN and US Army did equip black guerrillas perhaps that would of tied down a lot of CSA troops. Blacks would of been well motivated so they should make fine guerrillas. We will have to put that in the would of should of category. Guerrillas on both sides scored a lot of success and of course some did better then others. Perhaps the British and the Americans in WW2 where inspired by the guerrilla conflict of the CW to the extent that they realized they need to have a central control over supplying and training guerrillas . Just a bit of conjecture on my part.
Leftyhunter
 

leftyhunter

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It hurt more than it helped in Eastern TN, and Western NC for sure. Gov. Vance begged Davis and Bragg to lift conscription in the areas for that exact reason. I think I posted the official correspondence in your other thread. Of course Bragg being well.. Bragg, refused the Idea and pushed for Davis to do the same. In the end it was only lightened in WNC at least and had a noticeable effect on the civilian population no matter their views of the war. Many men enlisted to avoid conscription and made a bee line for the nearest Union line as soon as they saw the glitter of bayonets in the distance.

I'll look through my resources and get things together. I've gotten off that subject as of the last couple weeks and been focusing in other area's. I'll have to drag out my flash drive with the info and get it together. I'll try to get on it by tomorrow.
Quite right . I think I posted that one of the CSA generals in East Tn thought thought that as well. No hurry family is more important. Conscription or the draft was a sore point on both sides in the CW . I would argue it hurt the CSA more in that Southern white men where more likely to take up arms against the CSA govt vs Union draft dodgers.
Leftyhunter
 

M.Warren

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That's an interesting point. I have a book which I don't have at the moment because a friend is borrowing it where the USN did supply Unionist guerrillas in Southern Fl with a fair amount of success. By the same token if the USN and US Army did equip black guerrillas perhaps that would of tied down a lot of CSA troops. Blacks would of been well motivated so they should make fine guerrillas. We will have to put that in the would of should of category. Guerrillas on both sides scored a lot of success and of course some did better then others. Perhaps the British and the Americans in WW2 where inspired by the guerrilla conflict of the CW to the extent that they realized they need to have a central control over supplying and training guerrillas . Just a bit of conjecture on my part.
Leftyhunter
Good points. Without getting into modern politics, we've done that even more recently; trying to arm resistance and in the end having those weapons used against us. I saw that first hand as Im sure others here did. Didn't Lincoln do something like that in KY at one point?
 

leftyhunter

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Good points. Without getting into modern politics, we've done that even more recently; trying to arm resistance and in the end having those weapons used against us. I saw that first hand as Im sure others here did. Didn't Lincoln do something like that in KY at one point?
It's possible that some Unionist home guards switched sides . In Mo the"paw-paw' militia consisting of former Mo State Guard who took a loyalty oath to the Union switched sides once again and fought on the side of "old Pap" Sterling when he invaded Mo in September of 1864. When the paw-paw where captured two words "not good'. On the other hand has mentioned in the thread Union vs CSA guerrillas plenty of CSA soldiers deserted with their CSA issued arms in hand so it worked both ways. Arming folks is a trickey business no doubt as it was in the CW.
Leftyhunter
 

leftyhunter

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In late 1864 their was indeed armed irregualar resistance to the Confederacy in South Carolina.
"The blacks became their principal concern, especially when gangs of slaves plundered plantations and evaded capture. Brutal pitched battles occurred in some places, one of the biggest in late
March near Pineville. neighborhood rebels killed many of the band of thirty armed fugitives, including their leader.
So dangerous did the situation appear at first that South Carolina scouts thought only of killing fugitive slaves not of capturing them.
"A Savage Conflict the Decisive Role of Guerrillas in the American Civil War" Daniel Sutherland The University of North Carolina Press p.272.
Leftyhunter
 

KansasFreestater

1st Lieutenant
HEADQUARTERS DEPARTMENT OF THE MISSOURI, Saint Louis, Mo., October 21, 1862.
Brig. Gen. E. A. CARR, Helena, Ark.:
GENERAL: Yours of the 16th, conveying letter of General Holmes and a copy of your answer, is received. It is hardly necessary for me to add anything to the force of your argument. The idea of carrying on war cautiously because the enemy has a weak spot that may be impaired is too shallow to bear consideration. The enemy must be weakened by every honorable means, and he has no right to whine about it. The rebellion must be shaken to its foundation, which is slavery, and the idea of saving rebels from the inevitable consequences of their rebellion is no part of our business while they persist. The use of our soldiers in disarming negroes who had armed themselves was a violation of law, as well as the cause of the capture of some of our men. Free negroes, like other men, will inevitably seek weapons of war, and fearing they may be returned to slavery, they will fight our foes for their own security. That is the inevitable logic of events, not our innovation....

SAML. R. CURTIS, Major- General.​
Bravo, Gen'l. Curtis!
 

leftyhunter

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Should the Union Army have supported the practice by sending weapons and supplies to the irregulars?
In addition to Gen. Dodge and Thomas in Northern AL and of course in S.E. Fl by the USN Gen. Burnside provided David "Tinker Dave" Beatty all the ammo his guerrilla band in Eastern Tn could carry. Interestingly enough he did not incorporate Tinker Dave"s men into the Union Army. I am not aware of Union forces arming black guerrillas . Keeping in mind their was no centralized command of irregular forces as their would be in WW2.
Leftyhunter
 

leftyhunter

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In the North it would be called armed resistance, in the South it might be called armed insurrection. Regardless of the term used, the armed resistance caused some concern in the South but I do not see where it greatly impacted the war. It would appear the Confederate States primary used second line troops and home guard type units to respond to the problem. The slaves who slowed down production and provided the Union with intelligence probaley impacted the outcome of the war to a larger extent than the armed resistance.
Hi @Rebforever,
In your thread about why blacks staued in the South you mentioned loyalty to the South.Can you provide evidence that they were loyal to the South? This thread has shown above has sources and I know you love sources . Here we have a Southern newspaper stating that blacks did not seem to love the Confederacy.
Leftyhunter
 

Dedej

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Hi @Rebforever,
In your thread about why blacks staued in the South you mentioned loyalty to the South.Can you provide evidence that they were loyal to the South? This thread has shown above has sources and I know you love sources . Here we have a Southern newspaper stating that blacks did not seem to love the Confederacy.
Leftyhunter

Another form of resistance that I don't normally see covered is Maroon Communities. I just started reading Sylviane A. Diouf's book and it was definitely not a widely covered form of resistance - but known. Many left fought or came out of hiding and their hidden communities to fight against the Confederacy as well.

Slavery's Exiles: The Story of the American Maroons by Sylviane A. Diouf


Complete CSPAN Interview: https://www.c-span.org/video/?318368-1/sylviane-diouf-slaverys-exiles

A Goodreads Review:
A crucial distinction between African-American slaves and their counterparts elsewhere in the hemisphere, as I noted in my review of Nathaniel Millett's recent book, was the apparent absence of runaway-slave communities in North America analogous to the maroon settlements of Jamaica and the quilombos of Brazil. A well-armed white majority and organized slave patrols made abscondance difficult for American slaves, and those who did flee their masters could take refuge in Northern cities or Canada, both safer options than the wilderness. Millett's short-lived Prospect Bluff maroon community seemed the exception that proved the rule.

I say “seemed” because Sylvane Diouf's new book, a deeply-researched thematic study of marronage within the early United States, has uncovered many more exceptions to the “no American maroons” rule – so many that it has invalidated the rule altogether. SLAVERY'S EXILES identifies maroon communities in Louisiana in the 1780s and 1820s; on Belleisle Island in the Savannah River in 1786-87; near Robeson County, North Carolina, in the 1850s; and most notably in the Dismal Swamp of southeastern Virginia, which by the 1830s provided refuge to 2,000-3,000 runaways (pp. 162, 190, 193, 211). These communities, which ranged in size from a few dozen to one hundred or so people, represented only one segment of the North American maroon population in the antebellum era, the segment Diouf calls “hinterland maroons.” Another large group of runaways, “borderland maroons,” lived near their former homes or families in “the wild land that bordered the farms and plantations” (p. 5), and had a rather different set of experiences from their hinterlands counterparts. This distinction proves one of the more important analytical insights of Diouf's book.



Other reads:
Maroon Communities in South Carolina: A Documentary Record by Richard Price
Maroon Societies: Rebel Slave Communities in the Americas by Timothy James Lockley
 

leftyhunter

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Hi Dedej,
Very interesting and not a well known history of Maroon communities. I do know that escaped slaves did join the Seminoles in Florida and one major Indian band that I disguised in the thread on Civil War Inians in the Indian Territory now present day Oklahoma.
Your right Maroons are more associated with Jamaica. If you can post any armed resistance by them and ir attempts by the Union to arm them that would really enhance this thread.
Leftyhunter
 
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