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Belgium Confederate Revolver?

Discussion in 'Civil War Weapons and Ammunition' started by Jonl51, Oct 23, 2018.

  1. Jonl51

    Jonl51 Private

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    Greetings All,
    I need some assistance trying to i.d.
    this Belgium revolver. On left frame we have: D D LeVaux, G with crown mark over it. On the right side is 1863.
    This is a top break large caliber revolver with an ejection ring mechanism, double action, six chamber cylinder. Very ornate with hand carved grips decorated with what appears to be tobacco leaves.
    Engraved on top of the barrel with name and Bristol, TN. address. A very interesting piece. Thanks!
     

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  3. captaindrew

    captaindrew 1st Lieutenant Trivia Game Winner

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    An interesting piece indeed, hope someone can tell us more about it.
     
  4. 1867crete

    1867crete Corporal

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    Very nice weapon interested in learning more about it!
     
  5. Rusk County Avengers

    Rusk County Avengers Corporal

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    The "Bristol TN" address could just be a retailers mark, and the 1863 a patent date, doesn't necessarily mean its Confederate. It could have just been sold from the retailer in the 1870's new in the box and those revolvers still being made at the time.

    I'm no expert on Civil War era revolvers, (but I do love them!), but this doesn't look like any revolver from the War I'm aware of, and I'm aware of quite a few. Also the markings could be fake as can be, it was common in the late 19th Century and early 20th Century to mark European, and especially Belgian pinfire revolvers "CSA" and otherwise to give them Confederate association. I wouldn't hold my breath on this gun being a genuine Confederate revolver, and if it were a betting match, I'd put money on it not being one. That being said, I have been known to be wrong.

    Oh and a final note, I don't recall off hand gutta percha grips on revolvers were a thing yet in the CW era, more an 1870's and 80's thing.
     
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  6. Jonl51

    Jonl51 Private

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    Thank you. The address on top of the barrel begins with an individual ‘s name, T P Wood, there were several men by this name or initials in the Confederate army but I’m still researching that. I have emailed the website Little gun for help too. You are quite right that this may not turn out to be Confederate. I thought the grips might be carved wood ( ebony )?
    What do you make of the extra number,
    121, or / 2/ along the right side of the barrel? You can see it in the photo.
    Regards.
     
  7. Rusk County Avengers

    Rusk County Avengers Corporal

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    Well in the pictures it looks like gutta percha, ebony grips as far as I know weren't a thing, plus they look like a pretty common pattern with gutta percha grips on Belgian guns.

    I don't know, assembly number perhaps.
     
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  8. Patrick H

    Patrick H Major

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    Is it a pinfire? I obviously can't tell from over here, but it looks more like a rimfire or center fire cartridge revolver. Were there any cartridge revolvers (other than pinfire) available during the CW?
     
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  9. Mark A

    Mark A Private

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    The Raphael (top) and Perrin (bottom) were French made center fire cartridge revolvers available for the War Between the States.

    20181024_154720.jpg

    Raphael (left) and Perrin (right) cartridges.

    20181024_154548.jpg

    Unlike modern center fire cartridges with a primer the Raphael & Perrin cartridges had a flat base.
     
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  10. Rusk County Avengers

    Rusk County Avengers Corporal

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    The gun in question doesn't have the tell tale slots for the pins on pinfire cartridges, kinda another hole in this gun being CW as I believe the Raphael, Perrin, S&W .22 First Models, S&W Second Models, and my personal favorite, I'm gonna have one Moore .32 RF 7-shot revolver were just about the only other cartridge revolvers used than the Pinfires.

    This raises an interesting question, just how many conventional cartridge, (Rimfire, Pinfire, and Centerfire) revolvers were used? Not including the oddball ones resulting from S&W's shenanigans with the Rollin White Patent. Like the "Cup Fire" for example from, Merwin and Bray I think?
     
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  11. Jonl51

    Jonl51 Private

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    Hello,
    No, it is not a pin fire. Thanks
     
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  12. Jonl51

    Jonl51 Private

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    It doesn’t match the size of the numbers ( serial ? ) on the left frame that look like maker applied numbers. The same is true of the 1863 marking on the right side, also the 1863 is not in a perfect alignment, so I’m thinking not a patent number. Still could be bogus though. Don’t know what the grips are made from. Thanks.
     
  13. Jonl51

    Jonl51 Private

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    Thanks for the pictures and info.
     
  14. Patrick H

    Patrick H Major

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    Wow! This is new information to me, and I am glad to see it. I had no idea there were other cartridge revolvers available that early. Thank you!
     
  15. Jonl51

    Jonl51 Private

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    Hi. Would you happen to know the caliber of those two cartridges? My gun is either .44 or .45 I believe. Nice pictures too!
     
  16. Mark A

    Mark A Private

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    Both cartridges are 12mm, approximately 47 caliber.
     
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  17. Jonl51

    Jonl51 Private

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    Thank you!
     
  18. Mark A

    Mark A Private

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    20181108_125524.jpg
    There were several cartridge revolvers available for the Civil War, all in limited numbers.

    20181108_120313.jpg

    20181108_124121.jpg

    20181108_124242.jpg

    20181108_124347.jpg

    20181108_124515.jpg

    20181108_124658.jpg

    20181108_124940.jpg

    20181108_125404.jpg

    The above pictured revolvers were made by the following:

    Reid
    Uhlinger
    Allen & Wheelock (4)
    Bacon (4)
    Plant (2)
    Pond (2)
    Prescott (3)
    Moore
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2018
  19. JOHN42768

    JOHN42768 Captain Trivia Game Winner

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  20. Patrick H

    Patrick H Major

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    Nice photos of some beautiful old revolvers. Thank you.
     
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  21. Mark A

    Mark A Private

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    A few of the large caliber cartridges used during the Civil War. Left to right: 12mm pinfire, 12mm centerfire tapered case, 12mm centerfire straight case, 42 caliber cup primed, 38 caliber rimfire and 44 caliber lipfire cartridges.
    20181109_115337.jpg

    Base view of the above cartridges.
    20181109_114925.jpg
     
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