Bedford Jines The Klan

Battalion

Banned
Joined
Dec 30, 2005
I mentioned specifically the Meridian & The March to the Sea Campaign for sources referencing murdered slaves, to include women & children locked into their cabins/shacks and them burned around them. Accounts are not difficult to find, but you have to be willing to look and able to look at documentation that doesn't fit what you want to believe.

Cpl Schofield as well as a Sgt Risedorph both of the 4th MN VI make mention of the burned slave cabins in Mississippi. Cpl Schofields diares/letters are in a private collection. Sgt Risedorph's are in the MNHS

Peter Anderson Papers & IIRC the "Morrill Diaries"also of the 4th MN mentions murdered slaves during the March to the Sea, IIRC it was one of these two who describe finding a destroyed camp of runaways during the March to the Sea and not being able to bury the dead in a clearing in the piney woods of Georgia he also mentions finding "Baby Freedom." Both available at the MNHS

A more recent read that includes reference to murdered slaves in Mississippi in particular was The State of Jones, not one of the better works in recent times IMO but not alone in referencing slaves being murdered.

Eric Foner makes mention of the murder of slaves not being considered murder being considered the same kind of property as a horse. http://www.ericfoner.com
This is what I expected. "Accounts are not difficult to find" -but most of the sources are inaccessible and no specifics are given. Certainly you can quote us a passage or two from the accounts of Schofield, Risedorph, Anderson or the "Morrill Diaries."

"A more recent read that includes reference to murdered slaves in Mississippi in particular was The State of Jones"

I looked through this book and found no account of murdered slaves.
 

RobertP

Lt. Colonel
Joined
Nov 11, 2009
Location
Dallas
This is what I expected. "Accounts are not difficult to find" -but most of the sources are inaccessible and no specifics are given. Certainly you can quote us a passage or two from the accounts of Schofield, Risedorph, Anderson or the "Morrill Diaries."

"A more recent read that includes reference to murdered slaves in Mississippi in particular was The State of Jones"

I looked through this book and found no account of murdered slaves.
My point Batt. is that the two 4th Minn. NCO's mentioned by Johan S. apparently did not take part in the Meridian Campaign in which he says they saw murdered slaves and burned slave cabins. The regt. did participate in the Vicksburg campaign but was pretty much on garrison duty there after the city's capture and later in N. Alabama. He needs to look for another source.
 

Battalion

Banned
Joined
Dec 30, 2005
My point Batt. is that the two 4th Minn. NCO's mentioned by Johan S. apparently did not take part in the Meridian Campaign in which he says they saw murdered slaves and burned slave cabins. The regt. did participate in the Vicksburg campaign but was pretty much on garrison duty there after the city's capture and later in N. Alabama. He needs to look for another source.
Yeah, the 4th Minnesota was in north Alabama near Huntsville at the time of the Meridian Campaign (Feb. 14-20, 1864)-

4th MN (see page 283)-
http://books.google.com/books?id=1caCAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA283#v=onepage&q&f=false

Meridian Campaign
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Meridian
 

johan_steele

Regimental Armorer
Retired Moderator
Joined
Feb 20, 2005
Location
South of the North 40
The two MN NCO's noted murdered slaves & burned slave cabins in Mississippi, not during the Meridian Campaign. I apologize if I gave that impression.

State of Jones specifically mentions murdered slaves & slave cabins burned around their ears, I doubt VERY much Battalion looked at the book, even if he did I wouldn't trust him to admit he found it. Point of fact: please recall his assertion that MN provided no arty... I don't own the book but listened to it on CD via interlibrary loan. I don't know when I'll be back to the library to grab it again through Interlibrary loan. I wasn't overly impressed w/ the book due to a variety of reason to include the interplay between it's author & others of the historical community and I see no reason to do so just to cite a specific page that can likely be found by someone who owns the book.

The 4th MN VI was on garrison in a variety of places that brought them in close contact w/ the brutalities of slavery and the "benevolance" shown them. Many a man who could have cared less about slavery found themselves anti-slavery after seeing slavery 1st hand. In particular when they saw slaves "whiter than I."

You asked for sources, I gave them and I do believe I said that you wouldn't accept them and would ridicule them... so why again did I give them? I'm still waiting for Battalion to give his credentials, but won't waste my time holding my breath. I've been accused of lieing by a few here... I'm not.

3 of the 4 letter/diary collections are available through the MNHS, and like NARA it's a chore to actually get at them especially w/out document id's/catalog #'s. My notes are a mess, to be polite, and citing the murder of slaves throughout the CS wasn't my purpose when studying those letters & diaries.

The Schofield papers are part of a private collection and I have to ask permission to access them, my copy was loaned to my father & I'll not likely see him till next month. I know, I know that isn't good enough for you. State of Jones is readily available through interlibray loan and the Eric Foner website is linked.

Murder of slaves as unknown or rare or the treatment of slaves as livestock can be disproved by a 5 minute search.

References can easily be found to murdered slaves throughout the CS by US soldiers and Freedmens bureau, before during & of freemen after the war. Was it common place? Christ, I hope not but clearly more than some would ever admit. Battalion likes to imply the death of every black person during the war was the fault of the US... he's making things up.
 

ole

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Retired Moderator
Joined
Feb 20, 2005
Location
Near Kankakee
Watched an H2 presentation on the history of the Klan. According to that presentation, the Klan did start in Pulaski, TN as a somewhat fraternal organization, hence the silly names: Klaverns and Grand Wizards and such. Everyone was admonished to wear a costume which, at least covered the face.

Then they took to night rides -- just for fun, of course. Then, predictably, it turned ugly, which was about the time that THAT GUY ordered a disbandment. Some groups did; some didn't. The Klan had acquired a life of its own.
 

cash

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Joined
Feb 20, 2005
Location
Right here.
Watched an H2 presentation on the history of the Klan. According to that presentation, the Klan did start in Pulaski, TN as a somewhat fraternal organization, hence the silly names: Klaverns and Grand Wizards and such. Everyone was admonished to wear a costume which, at least covered the face.

Then they took to night rides -- just for fun, of course. Then, predictably, it turned ugly, which was about the time that THAT GUY ordered a disbandment. Some groups did; some didn't. The Klan had acquired a life of its own.

Chronology is a little off. They got violent well before the order. He ordered it disbanded once they'd achieved their objective and he saw further violence would be counterproductive.
 

diane

Retired User
Joined
Jan 23, 2010
Location
State of Jefferson
Forrest never advocated the kind of violence the 'bad' klan was perpetrating. That was why he got out of it and 'ordered' it disbanded - maybe he didn't have the actual authority to do that but it was a good try since many had joined because of him. Those persons, for the most part, did leave. He never wore klan regalia and, in the one incident that may have been led by him, he did not cover his face as did the others. However, radical elements had entered the organization and, finding them uncontrollable, Forrest left. One might say he did so because he didn't want their crimes pinned on him, or one might say it had served its purpose. Both are true. However, the violence was NOT because of Forrest - it increased AFTER he left. He rode herd on it as much as he could.
 
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