Bedford Jines The Klan

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brass napoleon

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All right guys, let's calm down and keep it civil here.

Posted as moderator.
 

brass napoleon

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That's enough of this one for a while. Thread closed.
 
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brass napoleon

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Moving to Moderated Forum. Any further posts will have to be pre-approved.
 

ExNavyPilot

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You've been offered several times to back up some of your claims and also your claims of southern outrages in the Civil War and you fail to present any documentation
Savez-- The Declaration of Grievances from the 1861 East Tennessee Unionist Convention complains of pillaging and murder by Confederate-backing Tennesseans against Unionist Tennesseans. http://books.google.com/books?id=RTAOAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA157&lpg=PA157&dq=Civil+War,+pillage,+east+Tennessee&source=bl&ots=_Bhbguet0i&sig=N6cka1v14EvCkOYLQOwXQLWy9iQ&hl=en#v=onepage&q=Civil War, pillage, east Tennessee&f=false pg 157. I just used this in another thread when discussing examples of southerners behaving badly. I'm NOT saying that it happened all the time everywhere, but you asked for an example from Johan_Steele and this one was easy for me to repeat here.

Are you suggesting that there were NO southern outrages in the Civil War? That all southern soldiers were honest, upstanding and never committed rape, murder, or looting? That's about as silly as me saying the northerners never committed any outrages, or our soldiers in WWII never committed any outrages, or in Vietnam or in Iraq. Unfortunately, it happened in every war in the past, committed by both sides, and will happen whenever/wherever there's war. To say otherwise is to be digging into some Treasury of Virtue of your own making.
 

diane

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Thanks for re-opening it! We were getting an interesting peripheral conversation going. Maybe it can be continued?
 
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ole

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The thread has been moved to the "Moderated Threads" forum. Conversation is continued, but each post must be approved by the administrator. If I could move it back out, I would.
 

brass napoleon

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I just moved it to the Secession and Politics thread. Anyone can post to it now... just be careful.
 

Savez

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Savez-- The Declaration of Grievances from the 1861 East Tennessee Unionist Convention complains of pillaging and murder by Confederate-backing Tennesseans against Unionist Tennesseans. http://books.google.com/books?id=RTAOAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA157&lpg=PA157&dq=Civil War, pillage, east Tennessee&source=bl&ots=_Bhbguet0i&sig=N6cka1v14EvCkOYLQOwXQLWy9iQ&hl=en#v=onepage&q=Civil War, pillage, east Tennessee&f=false pg 157. I just used this in another thread when discussing examples of southerners behaving badly. I'm NOT saying that it happened all the time everywhere, but you asked for an example from Johan_Steele and this one was easy for me to repeat here.

Are you suggesting that there were NO southern outrages in the Civil War? That all southern soldiers were honest, upstanding and never committed rape, murder, or looting? That's about as silly as me saying the northerners never committed any outrages, or our soldiers in WWII never committed any outrages, or in Vietnam or in Iraq. Unfortunately, it happened in every war in the past, committed by both sides, and will happen whenever/wherever there's war. To say otherwise is to be digging into some Treasury of Virtue of your own making.
Thanks for posting. No I am not suggesting that at all. I am not that naive. I was actually referring to some specific things Johan had posted and several people asked for documentation. None were forthcoming. I'm well aware of the "civil war" that went on during the Civil War. It was the ugly part of the war that is seldom seen. Florida is interesting to read about in this sense.
 
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johan_steele

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Thanks for posting. No I am not suggesting that at all. I am not that naive. I was actually referring to some specific things Johan had posted and several people asked for documentation. None were forthcoming. I'm well aware of the "civil war" that went on during the Civil War. It was the ugly part of the war that is seldom seen. Florida is interesting to read about in this sense.
I posted where the specific references came from. After one of your cronies opted to go postal on my email, 116 oh so polite emails in less than an hour, I decided I had better things to do than deal w/ you & yours on Thanksgiving weekend. You called me a liar in reference to reading letters, I didn't have the inclination on Thanksgiving day to start listing names & notes to a man who would simply claim they didn't exist. I don't have the inclination on Christmas day either. I'm on the road away from home one week in three, I don't haul my library w/ me. I work for a living.

I mentioned specifically the Meridian & The March to the Sea Campaign for sources referencing murdered slaves, to include women & children locked into their cabins/shacks and them burned around them. Accounts are not difficult to find, but you have to be willing to look and able to look at documentation that doesn't fit what you want to believe.
 

brass napoleon

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Nope, looks like this one is gonna have to go back in the Moderated forum.
 

Glorybound

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This thread should be back out in the general forums...there's nothing I can see that would warrant it's movement back to the moderated forum.
 
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ExNavyPilot

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Thanks for posting. No I am not suggesting that at all. I am not that naive. I was actually referring to some specific things Johan had posted and several people asked for documentation. None were forthcoming. I'm well aware of the "civil war" that went on during the Civil War. It was the ugly part of the war that is seldom seen. Florida is interesting to read about in this sense.
Savez--
I'm a bit ignorant about the war in Florida. Was there a lot of guerilla/partisan action there, too? Any good references for me to make myself less ignorant? That sort of stuff fascinates me....just maybe not as much as it does BorderRuffian!:wink:
 

Savez

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Savez--
I'm a bit ignorant about the war in Florida. Was there a lot of guerilla/partisan action there, too? Any good references for me to make myself less ignorant? That sort of stuff fascinates me....just maybe not as much as it does BorderRuffian!:wink:
I've gotten most of my information from scholarly journals. I used a database from a local university. My friend is a student there and I used his code to get them. There are some good ones. An example is....


Ed Bearss, "The Civil War Operations in and around Pensacola," Florida Historical Quarterly 36 (1957-1958): 125-65.

It has three parts to it. Florida Historical Quartlery is a good place to start. Not sure if there are any articles online from them or not. When I think of some other journals I will let you know. I'll have to check when I get home. I printed off several articles. I have two binders full of articles on the naval aspect of the war with some articles about Florida and one binder of just Civil War Florida articles.

There is a pretty good website too....

http://www.civilwarflorida.com/site/news/
 

Battalion

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....I didn't have the inclination on Thanksgiving day to start listing names & notes to a man who would simply claim they didn't exist. I don't have the inclination on Christmas day either. I'm on the road away from home one week in three, I don't haul my library w/ me. I work for a living.

I mentioned specifically the Meridian & The March to the Sea Campaign for sources referencing murdered slaves, to include women & children locked into their cabins/shacks and them burned around them. Accounts are not difficult to find, but you have to be willing to look and able to look at documentation that doesn't fit what you want to believe.
Such claims need documentation. It's been 10 days since Christmas. Certainly you weren't working through the holidays.
 
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ExNavyPilot

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I've gotten most of my information from scholarly journals. I used a database from a local university. My friend is a student there and I used his code to get them. There are some good ones. An example is....

Ed Bearss, "The Civil War Operations in and around Pensacola," Florida Historical Quarterly 36 (1957-1958): 125-65.

It has three parts to it. Florida Historical Quartlery is a good place to start. Not sure if there are any articles online from them or not. When I think of some other journals I will let you know. I'll have to check when I get home. I printed off several articles. I have two binders full of articles on the naval aspect of the war with some articles about Florida and one binder of just Civil War Florida articles.

There is a pretty good website too....

http://www.civilwarflorida.com/site/news/
Savez-- Thanks for the info. Looks like I have some more reading to do. I downloaded the first part of Bearss' article and started glancing through it. All the place names brought back memories of my year in Pensacola when I was undergoing primary flight training. I hadn't yet developed my interest in Civil War history so I didn't visit any of the sites; my focus back then was on the flying...and the ladies. Anyways, much appreciation for the pointers.
 
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johan_steele

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Such claims need documentation. It's been 10 days since Christmas. Certainly you weren't working through the holidays.
I certainly was working; having just the 26th off.

Battalion has been asked for his own credentials in the past and refused to give them... after he demanded the same of someone else and that someone else provided. Stones, Glass houses and all that.

I mentioned specifically the Meridian & The March to the Sea Campaign for sources referencing murdered slaves, to include women & children locked into their cabins/shacks and them burned around them. Accounts are not difficult to find, but you have to be willing to look and able to look at documentation that doesn't fit what you want to believe.

Cpl Schofield as well as a Sgt Risedorph both of the 4th MN VI make mention of the burned slave cabins in Mississippi. Cpl Schofields diares/letters are in a private collection. Sgt Risedorph's are in the MNHS

Peter Anderson Papers & IIRC the "Morrill Diaries"also of the 4th MN mentions murdered slaves during the March to the Sea, IIRC it was one of these two who describe finding a destroyed camp of runaways during the March to the Sea and not being able to bury the dead in a clearing in the piney woods of Georgia he also mentions finding "Baby Freedom." Both available at the MNHS

A more recent read that includes reference to murdered slaves in Mississippi in particular was The State of Jones, not one of the better works in recent times IMO but not alone in referencing slaves being murdered.

Eric Foner makes mention of the murder of slaves not being considered murder being considered the same kind of property as a horse. http://www.ericfoner.com
 

RobertP

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I mentioned specifically the Meridian & The March to the Sea Campaign for sources referencing murdered slaves, to include women & children locked into their cabins/shacks and them burned around them. Accounts are not difficult to find, but you have to be willing to look and able to look at documentation that doesn't fit what you want to believe.

Cpl Schofield as well as a Sgt Risedorph both of the 4th MN VI make mention of the burned slave cabins in Mississippi. Cpl Schofields diares/letters are in a private collection. Sgt Risedorph's are in the MNHS
Best I can tell the 4th MN was not involved in the Meridian Campaign of Feb. '64, but was on extended garrison duty in Bridgeport and Huntsville, Ala. during that time.
 
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