Bedford Jines The Klan

diane

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Jan 23, 2010
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State of Jefferson
Joe Johnston was a klansman? I've never heard that before anywhere - sure would like a source for it. What I've understood is Old Joe wouldn't touch them with a telephone pole.

Not a bad article - except for one or two minor points seems to be accurate as far as it goes. Forrest's biggest contribution to the kkk doesn't seem to be mentioned, though. That was their system of secret cells and a porous organization that made it virtually impossible to stamp them out - that's one good reason Grant couldn't do a thorough job of it and why they still exist. Forrest ran a brilliant intelligence system throughout the war that the Union never broke - he transferred it to the klan. Forrest peddled insurance after the war and travelled all over the South - as soon as business was concluded, he'd plug the klan. He was like Typhoid Mary 'til he seen the light!
 

Battalion

Banned
Joined
Dec 30, 2005
The blog article says we should reject Forrest's testimony before a Congressional Committee because "we can all name a long list of folks who’ve routinely lied to Congress."

That's not an acceptable reason. Of all the info presented in the article it's the only item given under oath.
 

trice

Colonel
Joined
May 2, 2006
The blog article says we should reject Forrest's testimony before a Congressional Committee because "we can all name a long list of folks who’ve routinely lied to Congress."

That's not an acceptable reason. Of all the info presented in the article it's the only item given under oath.

None of this stuff seems to be news, and even at the time Forrest's testimony was regarded as showing he was head of the KKK. We can find almost everything in this article in Chapter XXVII ("The Grand Wizard of the Invisible Empire 1865-69") of Robert Selph Henry's "First with the Most" Forrest, published in 1944. Henry discusses the testimony before Congress in some detail.

Tim
 

diane

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Jan 23, 2010
Location
State of Jefferson
That's probably the best source for the investigations. Jack Hurst goes into a good deal of detail about Forrest's klan involvement, too.
 

cash

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Right here.
The blog article says we should reject Forrest's testimony before a Congressional Committee because "we can all name a long list of folks who’ve routinely lied to Congress."

That's not an acceptable reason. Of all the info presented in the article it's the only item given under oath.

We can reject Forrest's testimony because he himself said that he was "lying like a gentleman."
 

diane

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Location
State of Jefferson
No, we can't reject Forrest's testimony because it was accepted by the committee - but we can take it for what it's worth. "Lying like a gentleman" didn't mean actually lying - exactly. Forrest had a lot of trouble with his memory at that time ... and he didn't have his 5th amendment rights. He asked specifically if he had them and got a resounding NO but you tell the truth. So ... he was dodgy.
 

cash

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Location
Right here.
No, we can't reject Forrest's testimony because it was accepted by the committee - but we can take it for what it's worth. "Lying like a gentleman" didn't mean actually lying - exactly. Forrest had a lot of trouble with his memory at that time ... and he didn't have his 5th amendment rights. He asked specifically if he had them and got a resounding NO but you tell the truth. So ... he was dodgy.

Lying doesn't mean lying? Hmmm. I'll have to ponder that one. Is that anything like it depends on what the definition of "is" is? :smile:

Regarding his appearance before Congress and whether we can believe what he said, "And so he sat in his chair before the members of the committee and maneuvered, dodged, and evaded the barrage of questions, with surprising deftness. There is no doubt that all the while he knew far more than he was saying. Forrest later supposedly told a friend he saw shortly after the interrogation, 'I have been lying like a gentleman.' " [Brian Steel Wills, A Battle From the Start: The Life of Nathan Bedford Forrest, p. 364]
 

cash

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
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Right here.
The blog article says we should reject Forrest's testimony before a Congressional Committee because "we can all name a long list of folks who’ve routinely lied to Congress."

That's not an acceptable reason. Of all the info presented in the article it's the only item given under oath.

And as the article points out a long list of people have lied under oath to Congress about a litany of issues, both serious and silly.
 

diane

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State of Jefferson
The term 'lying like a gentleman' goes back a long, long way and connects with chivalry codes in Europe. It simply means one doesn't tell all one knows. Forrest knew plenty but he didn't say much. Anyway, if he had, how long would he have been back in Memphis before he got in the way of somebody's target practice?
 

johan_steele

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South of the North 40
He'd have been fine, the kind that would have taken exception didn't like to shoot at people who might shoot back... and there was no doubt Forrest would have returned fire.
The term 'lying like a gentleman' goes back a long, long way and connects with chivalry codes in Europe. It simply means one doesn't tell all one knows. Forrest knew plenty but he didn't say much. Anyway, if he had, how long would he have been back in Memphis before he got in the way of somebody's target practice?
 

johan_steele

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Apparently, the word of a Southern Gent was only good to another Southerner... I'm not sure on that count. But Forrest was no Gentleman and never claimed to be. He was a tough fighting man... a man who never shirked a fight or hid so better men than he could fight for him. Unlike others who embraced the Lost Cause and thhe Great Alibi.

Forrest was a real SoB but I can think of few others I would want at my side in a fight.
 

diane

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Jan 23, 2010
Location
State of Jefferson
That's true enough! It's highly likely Forrest would have lived long enough to return the favor anyway. If he didn't get them, somebody would. You're right - not likely to find a guy for a suicide mission. That was why Forrest could get a shave from any barber in Memphis - all of whom were black and some of whom were veterans of Ft Pillow. Whoever decided to give him a really close shave would be a goner!
 

bama46

Captain
Apparently, the word of a Southern Gent was only good to another Southerner... I'm not sure on that count. But Forrest was no Gentleman and never claimed to be. He was a tough fighting man... a man who never shirked a fight or hid so better men than he could fight for him. Unlike others who embraced the Lost Cause and thhe Great Alibi.

Forrest was a real SoB but I can think of few others I would want at my side in a fight.

that, my friend is offensive.
 
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