Research Baptist Associations during the Civil War

Ole Miss

Captain
Forum Host
Silver Patron
Regtl. Staff Shiloh 2020
Joined
Dec 9, 2017
Location
North Mississippi
Ah the joy of writing a 145 page Thesis on Hip Flexors and having a professor make changes on pages 4, 25 76, 97 etc and have to have every page retyped at a dollar per page!!! Not even mentioning about working on dissertation.
Regards
David
 
Joined
Sep 28, 2013
Location
Southwest Mississippi
Ah the joy of writing a 145 page Thesis on Hip Flexors and having a professor make changes on pages 4, 25 76, 97 etc and have to have every page retyped at a dollar per page!!! Not even mentioning about working on dissertation.
Regards
David
More Ole Miss memories !

:bounce:

There were very few people that could type our papers back in the 1980s.
I remember an eccentric fellow, that lived somewhere across from the old Kroger.

His name escapes me, but than man saved many students with his 1980's 'word processor'.
 
Joined
Sep 28, 2013
Location
Southwest Mississippi
out here in the boonies have a Greek church just up the road that has all the domes on the roof.

Yeah, the Eastern Orthodox churches do like domes !

I'm speaking from an architectural perspective now.

They are experts at transforming little American Protestant frame chapels into an Orthodox Church that would 'fit in' perfectly with anything in the old Byzantine Empire.

And in most cases, the end result is truly stunning !
 
Last edited:

A. Roy

Sergeant Major
Forum Host
Joined
Sep 2, 2019
Location
Raleigh, North Carolina
This was an interesting article to read. When I was growing up, most of the the other kids I knew were Baptists. I had heard of the Southern Baptist Convention, but didn't realize until years later that the Baptist church had effectively divided by the time of the Civil War.

Reading this thread has made me wonder, What was the religious makeup of soldiers during the Civil War? I mean, in demographic terms?

I haven't been able to find out much about that. One source says this:

"Out of 150,000 Jews in U.S., 7,000 served in blue and 3,000 in gray, and many encountered xenophobia. Around one in six Union soldiers were Catholic, in a nation where Protestants held a clear plurality. Nativists covertly and overtly lamented the growing Catholic presence, which some viewed on par with the secessionist threat, noting that there were more foreign-born Catholics in blue than there were Virginians in gray." ("Civil War Statistics," Thomas R. Flagel)

As far as how many southerners were Baptists, I find two seemingly widely-divergent claims. One source says 2 million, another 600,000. Maybe I've misunderstood something:

"... by 1860, the Baptist Church occupied a prominent position in Southern society, being the second largest Protestant religious body, with almost two million members." ("The Baptist Church and the Confederate Cause," M. F. Fiegel)

"In 1860 the southern baptists constituted the second largest aggregation of Protestants in the South, numbering in excess of 600,000 members." ("The Southern Baptists in the Confederacy," W. Harrison Daniel)

Roy B.
 

Tom Elmore

1st Lieutenant
Member of the Year
Joined
Jan 16, 2015
Very interesting. Two points to mention. The first involves colleges having a Baptist affiliation before the war; and second, Baptist chaplains assigned to units during the war:

Colleges/Seminaries with Baptist affiliations:
-Allegheny College, Blue Sulphur Springs, (West) Virginia (opened 1859, closed 1861, burned by the Federals in 1864).
-Central University of Iowa, Pella, Iowa.
-Furman University, Greenville, South Carolina (founded 1826).
-Denison University, Granville, Ohio (founded 1831), known as Granville College 1845-1852.
-Howard College, Marion, Alabama (founded 1841), now Samford University.
-Mercer University, Penfield, Georgia (first class in 1841).
-Mississippi College, Clinton, Mississippi (founded 1826), with a Presbyterian and Baptist affiliation.
-New York Central College, McGraw, New York (founded 1849, closed 1860).
-Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, Greenville, South Carolina.
-Southwestern Baptist University, Murfreesboro, Tennessee (afterwards Union University, Jackson, Tennessee).
-Union University, Murfreesboro, Tennessee (founded 1851, closed April 1861).
-University of Rochester, Rochester, New York (founded 1850).
-Waterville College, Waterville, Maine (established 1813), now Colby College.

Identified Baptist chaplains who served at Gettysburg, all except the last with the Confederate army:
-J. A. Stradley (identified as a missionary), 2nd North Carolina
-Crawford H. Toy, 53rd Georgia (co-founded Freemason Street Baptist Church in Norfolk, Virginia).
-John L. Pettigrew, 31st Georgia.
-Henry E. Brooks, 2nd North Carolina Battalion.
-W. B. Carson, 14th South Carolina.
-Augustus Goodwin Raines, 14th Alabama.
-Asa Monroe Marshall, Sr., 12th Georgia.
-Henry Carrier Vogel (or Vogell), 61st New York (possibly present), studied at Baptist Theological Seminary.
 

Karen Lips

1st Lieutenant
Joined
Jun 24, 2008
Location
Waxahachie,Texas
I graduated from Baylor in '68, back when it was still a Southern Baptist school. My best and favorite History teacher (my major) was Dr. Rufus Spain. He had graduated from Vanderbilt and had published his final paper as "At Ease in Zion." about how the Southern Baptists had dealt with the social issues from the end of Reconstruction to WW1.

While visiting Waco three years ago, I encountered Dr. Spain in his front yard. We had a very pleasant conversation; he was still sharp and very active -- drives himself, President of the Baylor Retired Professors group, etc -- at age 97.
I wish I could read his final paper, sounds interesting, especially since I grew up
southern Baptist.
 

7thWisconsin

Sergeant Major
Joined
Nov 21, 2014
A number of years ago, at a gathering of American Baptist clergy, we were discussing inter-conference Baptist relationships, principally American Baptist and southern Baptist. I accidentally became the subject matter expert du jour because I paid attention not only to how the conflict of the mid 1800s resulted in the Baptist split, but also to how the Civil War effected associations and congregations. For a hundred years afterwards, those relationships were still effected, although no one knew why anymore and they became part of other ensuing controversies (like the fundamentalist/modernist issue of the 20th century).
 

Lubliner

Captain
Forum Host
Joined
Nov 27, 2018
Location
Chattanooga, Tennessee
A number of years ago, at a gathering of American Baptist clergy, we were discussing inter-conference Baptist relationships, principally American Baptist and southern Baptist. I accidentally became the subject matter expert du jour because I paid attention not only to how the conflict of the mid 1800s resulted in the Baptist split, but also to how the Civil War effected associations and congregations. For a hundred years afterwards, those relationships were still effected, although no one knew why anymore and they became part of other ensuing controversies (like the fundamentalist/modernist issue of the 20th century).
When Richmond fell, the men left behind in the city, many were denominational preachers with congregations. They needed special permission to open their doors and succor the crowds. One of the controversies for holding prayers and sermons was stated by Union command to offer one for Lincoln, which was declined and withheld. This was a volatile point when one of the generals allowed the proceedings to continue without the mandatory prayer to Lincoln and the Union. It chaffed Dana, Grant, Wetzel, and possibly Meade.
The information can be traced through the O. R. correspondence for that time period (Volume 46, 3 parts).
Lubliner.
 
Joined
Sep 28, 2013
Location
Southwest Mississippi
When I first posted a comment on this thread months ago, I said that I was not going to enter into a theological debate.
That fact hasn't changed.

However, for historical context ... I must say not only the Baptists, but many Protestant Churches within the USA were never one cohesive group from the start.

While the obvious political split within the Baptist Church (immediately preceding the War) is the most famous, "break-away" groups
had been forming almost 20 years before the ACW. From what I understand, nothing about secular issues of the day seemed to be an excuse for these separations.

Although I'm not qualified to bring this up, I do find the topic interesting.

It seems to me these differences were primarily biblical interpretation and Church Authority.

I hope our clergy members can correct me if I'm wrong, and also enlighten all of us about this rarely discussed aspect of United States history.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Sep 28, 2013
Location
Southwest Mississippi
I almost forgot, one more historical fact.
It wasn't only the Protestants that were divided.

William Henry Elder, born in Baltimore, was ordained the third Bishop of Natchez in 1857. One of his first actions was to appoint Father Mathurin Grignon vicar general of the Diocese. He was a capable and energetic administrator who established a strong foundation on which the modern diocese was built.

During Bishop Elder’s administration, the Civil War consumed the nation in violence and bloodshed for four years. Known as a saintly and scholarly man, Bishop Elder wrote to his father on the eve of the Civil War: “It is hard to tell what is to be the fate of the country. I have not enough of political sagacity to see what will be the course of events, nor what would be the fruit of the remedies proposed. . . . We can all unite in praying to God to guide and protect us.”

Bishop Elder ministered to soldiers and celebrated Mass for the wounded throughout the war. He also ministered to a community of freedmen formed in Natchez by slaves who fled after the city was occupied in 1863 by federal troops.

Under Union occupation, the Bishop was expelled from Natchez and imprisoned in Vidalia, Louisiana, for refusing to pray for the United States government.


https://jacksondiocese.org/about/diocesan-history/#history4
 
Last edited:

7thWisconsin

Sergeant Major
Joined
Nov 21, 2014
When I first posted a comment on this thread months ago, I said that I was not going to enter into a theological debate.
That fact hasn't changed.

However, for historical context ... I must say not only the Baptists, but many Protestant Churches within the USA were never one cohesive group from the start.

While the obvious political split within the Baptist Church (immediately preceding the War) is the most famous, "break-away" groups
had been forming almost 20 years before the ACW. From what I understand, nothing about secular issues of the day seemed to be an excuse for these separations.

Although I'm not qualified to bring this up, I do find the topic interesting.

It seems to me these differences were primarily biblical interpretation and Church Authority.

I hope our clergy members can correct me if I'm wrong, and also enlighten all of us about this rarely discussed aspect of United States history.
There were indeed other issues. Among Baptists, Landmarkism was a major highly divisive movement in the mid 1800s.
 
Top