Authentic Union belt buckle?

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Authentic?

  • Original

    Votes: 2 25.0%
  • Reproduction

    Votes: 6 75.0%

  • Total voters
    8

6thOVI_Ringo

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Joined
Aug 30, 2018
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I came across a US belt buckle the other day in an antique shop. There was no information in the item, except that the final previous owner loves the buckle and wore it often. The buckle has no stamp on the back and has a very noticeable patina. Would any of you have an idea from this images whether or not the belt is in fact original?
 
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Tailor Pete

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Welcome from Arizona, where it's always Sunny! Looks to me to be a reproduction. It is VERY clean, and the lead filled back doesn't have the 'white oxide' patina usually found on 150 Y.O. lead. It is pretty nice, though.
 

James N.

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A little to clean for an original
Personally, I like the beveled edges on the hooks, and if it was kept in decent circumstances it might not have tarnished heavily, especially since the previous owner wore it; here's one on its original belt that I've worn pretty often on a reproduction like the one yours is on:

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Mine doesn't seem to have the beveled edges, though; welcome to the forums!

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Yankeedave

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I don't know, but it looks similar to a reproduction I owned while reenacting in the late '80's. Lead filled back. Brass front and holder. Thinner leather too. imho.
Most repops weren't lead filled back then the buckle was desirable.
 

Billw12280

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Joined
Mar 4, 2017
Messages
696
View attachment 213215 View attachment 213214 View attachment 213213 View attachment 213212 View attachment 213211 View attachment 213210 I came across a US belt buckle the other day in an antique shop. There was no information in the item, except that the final previous owner loves the buckle and wore it often. The buckle has no stamp on the back and has a very noticeable patina. Would any of you have an idea from this images whether or not the belt is in fact original?
I would say the belt is definetly a repop. Can you remove the buckle from the belt and give us a better picture of the reverse? The obverse looks like it could be original and the hooks also look correct but it looks like the lead back is overfilled slightly.
 

6thOVI_Ringo

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I would say the belt is definetly a repop. Can you remove the buckle from the belt and give us a better picture of the reverse? The obverse looks like it could be original and the hooks also look correct but it looks like the lead back is overfilled slightly.
Unfortunately it doesn’t want to come off. I’d have to rip it off. I can pull it up to see underneath, and there are no manufacturer stamps. Just scuffs like the rest of the backing.
 
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Patrick H

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Well, I'm sorry that I have no useful opinion on your buckle, but I'll offer you a hearty welcome from Missouri!
 
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FrankN

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Near Philadelphia
Hello, years ago I bought and then was able to return a buckle similar to yours. A member on another web site helped me to determine that mine was a repro. He included these photos for reference. #4 is a reproduction buckle. I think yours looks similar to #4. But I’m certainly not an expert. I also emailed a photo to Dave Taylor and he confirmed mine as a repro. Here’s his website link if you would like to contact him.
http://www.angelfire.com/oh3/civilwarantiques/

Regards,
Frank





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6thOVI_Ringo

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Hello, years ago I bought and then was able to return a buckle similar to yours. A member on another web site helped me to determine that mine was a repro. He included these photos for reference. #4 is a reproduction buckle. I think yours looks similar to #4. But I’m certainly not an expert. I also emailed a photo to Dave Taylor and he confirmed mine as a repro. Here’s his website link if you would like to contact him.
http://www.angelfire.com/oh3/civilwarantiques/

Regards,
Frank





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Thank you very much! That resource will certainly be useful.
 
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zburkett

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Aug 21, 2015
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Orange County, Virginia
Hello, years ago I bought and then was able to return a buckle similar to yours. A member on another web site helped me to determine that mine was a repro. He included these photos for reference. #4 is a reproduction buckle. I think yours looks similar to #4. But I’m certainly not an expert. I also emailed a photo to Dave Taylor and he confirmed mine as a repro. Here’s his website link if you would like to contact him.
http://www.angelfire.com/oh3/civilwarantiques/

Regards,
Frank





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My untrained eye has trouble seeing the difference between 2 and 4.
 

FrankN

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Jul 7, 2013
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Location
Near Philadelphia
QUOTE="zburkett, post: 1942523, member: 15616"]My untrained eye has trouble seeing the difference between 2 and 4.[/QUOTE]

The gentleman that helped me with my buckle gave these observations on the 4 buckles in the photo.

The hooks on original plates show more three dimensional shaping on the single hook with nicely beveled edges. #4 looks pretty wide and flat like a repro. The arrow hooks on #4 look small and simply shaped more pointed. The originals have spade shaped hooks with subtle curves. Another good feature to look for are signs that the hooks were originally coated with a thin coat of lead. On originals, much of the coating is often worn off, but traces can often be seen in protected areas on the hooks. On the three originals the remains of the coating can be plainly seen.

Also, I’ve seen that an overfilled lead back is not a sign of an original.
The repro I originally bought was found at a flea market. I was able to get my money back with no problem. I then bought one from a reputable dealer.

The one pictured by the OP could be genuine. Even the experts believe some reproductions are well done. I would get an opinion from David Taylor or Rafael Eledge from Shiloh relics.
http://www.shilohrelics.com/

Here is another site with great information.
http://www.relicman.com/fakes/zfakeFed475to534USOval.htm

Frank
 
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Billw12280

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Mar 4, 2017
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Another possibility is that this could be a Bannerman's piece? I don't like the backfill for an original but I do like the beveled arrow hooks and the slight upturn on the single hook. It is possible that this was created from an original skin and hooks but is in fact a post war piece?
 
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