Austrian 1842 (or '51?) Carbine

kotkinjs1

Private
Joined
May 25, 2017
Just picked up a neat little - really little - Austrian cavalry carbine. I've seen them named the 1842 or 1851. I'm not sure what the differences are. Also the ‘Kammer-Karabiner.’ Anyway, I can't believe how small and light this is compared to all other US CW carbines I've handled. As I understand the Union imported about 10,000 of these. This one seems to have escaped the 'aftermarket' ramrod installation that was done by the importers or US depots, or both. I think it has the Belgian style percussion conversion from the original tube lock. Sadly it's missing the saddle ring.

The odd thing is its complete lack of a rear sight. Every other one I've seen photos of all have the big Potsdam musket style ramp at the rear of the breach that seems integral to the tang. Maybe it was shaved off during the conversion process if it was too close to the nipple lump? Has anyone else ever seen one of these without a rear sight?

It's got few markings - standard Austrian Imperial eagle on the lock (but no date oddly?), and on the bottom of the butt is an LF that's very neatly stamped. Makes me think it was a maker's mark. A few numbers near the woodline of the barrel and on the barrel band there's a series of numbers preceded by an A maybe? It's very worn. It ends with a cross in a circle. That's not like any unit marking I've ever seen on Prussian or Austrian arms but I don't think they serial numbered these. It's strange to me.

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Took it apart to apply BLO and lightly clean up the inside of the lock, etc. It turns out those numbers on the barrel band are some kind of assembly numbers. The same numbers/symbols show up on the inside of all the metal parts - trigger guard, sling rail, barrel under the woodline, inside the lock on all the parts. Mystery solved I guess. Would still like to hear if anyone knows what LF signifies and if anyone has ever seen one of these without the rear sight.

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In 1851 Austrian Kaiser Franz Josef approved the production of two cavalry carbines; one rifled and one smoothbore. You have the rifled Muster 1851 Kammerkarabiner. Only the rifled version was imported during the Civil War, with 10,000 Kammerkarabiner being purchased in Europe by Colonel George Schuyler for the Federal Army's cavalry in late 1861. They were transformed from System Augustin tubelock to percussion using two transformation techniques. You have the "lump-of-iron" version originally developed by the Piedmontese Army in the early 1850s. The transformation work was probably performed in Liege, Belgium, however. The Austrian Army manufactured Kammerkarabiner with an enblock rear sight on the tang. But, it is fairly common to find one with the sight ground or filed off. I'm not sure why. In some cases the "lump-of-iron" is so large that it partially blocks the sight line and that may be why the sight was removed on those guns. The lock should be marked with a 851 to 855 date code. No one that I know of, including the Austrian Army Museum in Vienna, has a crib sheet for the manufacturing, assembly, and inspection marks on the System Austrian and System Lorenz guns. The "LF" mark on the stock may be the mark of Laurenz Florianschutz, one of the Austrian Army's arms contractors. If the carbine was contractor manufactured the contractor's name or mark should also be found on the top of the barrel forward of the Kammer breech section. Your carbine is missing the two sling rings which should be found on the sling bar on the left side of the weapon. In Austrian service the ramrod for the carbine was carried on two loops on the trooper's cartridge box strap and secured with a leather lanyard. The stocks for some significant, but unknown, number of the imported Kammerkarabiner were drilled for carriage of the ramrod under the barrel. Yours is one that was not.

You have an interesting piece which was a failure in service in the Federal Army. The Ordnance Office stupidly issued American standard ammunition for them rather than using the Austrian ammunition types for which the carbines had been designed.

Some unknown number of the carbines were also in Confederate service. The only ones who's provenance is documented, however, are 500 which were captured aboard the blockade runner Nikolai I.

Regards,
Don Dixon
 
Don Dixon posted a very detailed and informative reply while I was sorting out my photos. Sorry for the duplication of info:

You're well on the track to have 100% of it all ID'ed.
Using the highly recommended book; European Arms in the Civil War; Schwalm &Hofmann to keep me out of trouble here's a bit more information and some photos of some CSA purchased carbines.
**The "LF" is probably Laurenz Florianschutz, a Vienna furnisher of Austrian arms. S&H. page 91.
**10,000 were purchased by George Schuler {New York} in late 1861.

The following photos are some from the other side. CS items which made it through the blockade. The McRae papers offer no help in separating "carbines" into countries of origin. All were marked by Isaac Curtis, a Sinclair & Hamilton employee, who held many different contracts for the CS buyers. Mr. Curtis most likely had a team of inspectors in his employment, as stamping the thousands of different arms for the CSA would have taken years to complete.

NC obviously got carbines.
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IC
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As issued there was no provision for ram rods, which were worn around the neck on a lanyard. This alteration solved the lost ram rod problem.
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As you can see from the photos, the CS examples are usually found in poor condition, but are very rarely seen any more for sale.
 
In 1851 Austrian Kaiser Franz Josef approved the production of two cavalry carbines; one rifled and one smoothbore. You have the rifled Muster 1851 Kammerkarabiner. Only the rifled version was imported during the Civil War, with 10,000 Kammerkarabiner being purchased in Europe by Colonel George Schuyler for the Federal Army's cavalry in late 1861. They were transformed from System Augustin tubelock to percussion using two transformation techniques. You have the "lump-of-iron" version originally developed by the Piedmontese Army in the early 1850s. The transformation work was probably performed in Liege, Belgium, however. The Austrian Army manufactured Kammerkarabiner with an enblock rear sight on the tang. But, it is fairly common to find one with the sight ground or filed off. I'm not sure why. In some cases the "lump-of-iron" is so large that it partially blocks the sight line and that may be why the sight was removed on those guns. The lock should be marked with a 851 to 855 date code. No one that I know of, including the Austrian Army Museum in Vienna, has a crib sheet for the manufacturing, assembly, and inspection marks on the System Austrian and System Lorenz guns. The "LF" mark on the stock may be the mark of Laurenz Florianschutz, one of the Austrian Army's arms contractors. If the carbine was contractor manufactured the contractor's name or mark should also be found on the top of the barrel forward of the Kammer breech section. Your carbine is missing the two sling rings which should be found on the sling bar on the left side of the weapon. In Austrian service the ramrod for the carbine was carried on two loops on the trooper's cartridge box strap and secured with a leather lanyard. The stocks for some significant, but unknown, number of the imported Kammerkarabiner were drilled for carriage of the ramrod under the barrel. Yours is one that was not.

You have an interesting piece which was a failure in service in the Federal Army. The Ordnance Office stupidly issued American standard ammunition for them rather than using the Austrian ammunition types for which the carbines had been designed.

Some unknown number of the carbines were also in Confederate service. The only ones who's provenance is documented, however, are 500 which were captured aboard the blockade runner Nikolai I.

Regards,
Don Dixon
I admittedly know bupkis about these carbines other than the very vague basics of maybe the name fruwirth(?), .71 cal(?), and that it is rifled, with the saddle ring. I have one very similar to the OP, and not to hijack the thread, but what would make the one I own, different from the well identified one posted. I can see the obvious differences such as ramrod, hammer, etc. What would have been the reason the differences? Again, I don't have much in the way of resources for my research, so I consider myself a noob when it comes to less common pieces.

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Jack7171:

Your carbine is the other variant of the Muster 1851 Kammerkarabiner commonly seen in the United States. As the Austrians transitioned to Muster 1854 System Lorenz percussion weapons, the 30 Jäger battalions were armed first with Jägerstutzen and Dornstutzen. Then the k.k. Army began manufacturing, or purchasing from contractors, Type I and II rifle muskets for the line and Grenz infantry regiments. By 1859 the cavalry was still equipped almost exclusively with System Augustin tubelock firearms. As an interim measure, the k.k. Army used the following process to transform some System Augustin weapons to percussion for cavalry, support, and reserve units. The external parts of the System Augustin tubelock were removed and the resulting holes in the lockplate were filled. A bolster [Wellbaum] was forged, threaded to hold a nipple, and threaded to screw into the hole for the System Augustin tubelock Kern in the barrel of the weapon. Once in place, the new bolster was soldered or brazed to the barrel. The face of the System Augustin hammer was opened to fit around the nipple on the new percussion bolster - this is what was done on your carbine - or a replacement percussion hammer was fitted. In terms of lock geometry, this was probably the best system to transform System Augustin weapons to percussion. Muster 1851 rifled and smoothbore cavalry carbines, Muster 1844 Extra Corps carbines, Muster 1846 Sanitary Corps carbines, Muster 1851 pistols, and some Muster 1842 muskets were transformed using this system. A variety of bolster and hammer shapes were used. As System Lorenz arms became more common in the k.k. Army the transformation bolsters and replacement percussion hammers grew to resemble System Lorenz bolsters and hammers more closely. Among the Austrian weapons imported to America during the Civil War, this transformation is seen predominantly on Muster 1851 Kammerkarabiner. However, the Springfield Armory Museum collection includes examples of this technique used on other models of Austrian arms.

Your carbine also has the original enblock rear sight on the tang of the breech screw. With the Wellbaum percussioning technique there was no need to remove it, but there are some Wellbaum conversion carbines out there on which the sight was removed. I have one.

As stated in my earlier post, Muster 1851 Kammerkarabiner were not designed for carriage of the ramrod under the barrel. Some of the carbines purchased by COL Schuyler were drilled - probably in Liege - for carriage of a ramrod under the barrel and a variety of old surplus European ramrods were cut down and fitted to the carbines. One can see on your carbine where the original barrel band screw was removed, the screw hole was filed, and two replacement screws were fitted.

The configuration of the 10,000 carbines Schuyler purchased is all over the place: "lump-of-iron" and Wellbaum conversions, rear sights and no rear sights, ramrods and no ramrods, etc. Its easy to see why they were problematic in Civil War service, even without the problem of the Federal Army's failure to issue correct ammunition for them.

Regards,
Don Dixon
 
Jack7171:

Your carbine is the other variant of the Muster 1851 Kammerkarabiner commonly seen in the United States. As the Austrians transitioned to Muster 1854 System Lorenz percussion weapons, the 30 Jäger battalions were armed first with Jägerstutzen and Dornstutzen. Then the k.k. Army began manufacturing, or purchasing from contractors, Type I and II rifle muskets for the line and Grenz infantry regiments. By 1859 the cavalry was still equipped almost exclusively with System Augustin tubelock firearms. As an interim measure, the k.k. Army used the following process to transform some System Augustin weapons to percussion for cavalry, support, and reserve units. The external parts of the System Augustin tubelock were removed and the resulting holes in the lockplate were filled. A bolster [Wellbaum] was forged, threaded to hold a nipple, and threaded to screw into the hole for the System Augustin tubelock Kern in the barrel of the weapon. Once in place, the new bolster was soldered or brazed to the barrel. The face of the System Augustin hammer was opened to fit around the nipple on the new percussion bolster - this is what was done on your carbine - or a replacement percussion hammer was fitted. In terms of lock geometry, this was probably the best system to transform System Augustin weapons to percussion. Muster 1851 rifled and smoothbore cavalry carbines, Muster 1844 Extra Corps carbines, Muster 1846 Sanitary Corps carbines, Muster 1851 pistols, and some Muster 1842 muskets were transformed using this system. A variety of bolster and hammer shapes were used. As System Lorenz arms became more common in the k.k. Army the transformation bolsters and replacement percussion hammers grew to resemble System Lorenz bolsters and hammers more closely. Among the Austrian weapons imported to America during the Civil War, this transformation is seen predominantly on Muster 1851 Kammerkarabiner. However, the Springfield Armory Museum collection includes examples of this technique used on other models of Austrian arms.

Your carbine also has the original enblock rear sight on the tang of the breech screw. With the Wellbaum percussioning technique there was no need to remove it, but there are some Wellbaum conversion carbines out there on which the sight was removed. I have one.

As stated in my earlier post, Muster 1851 Kammerkarabiner were not designed for carriage of the ramrod under the barrel. Some of the carbines purchased by COL Schuyler were drilled - probably in Liege - for carriage of a ramrod under the barrel and a variety of old surplus European ramrods were cut down and fitted to the carbines. One can see on your carbine where the original barrel band screw was removed, the screw hole was filed, and two replacement screws were fitted.

The configuration of the 10,000 carbines Schuyler purchased is all over the place: "lump-of-iron" and Wellbaum conversions, rear sights and no rear sights, ramrods and no ramrods, etc. Its easy to see why they were problematic in Civil War service, even without the problem of the Federal Army's failure to issue correct ammunition for them.

Regards,
Don Dixon
Thank you for the excellent information! I could have never found out these facts on my own,,thx again Don.
 
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