August 18th, 1864, Grant refuses the second Confederate request to exchange POW’s.

Rebforever

Lt. Colonel
Joined
Oct 26, 2012
It shows that where the Union army went, slaves left the plantations. Obviously, the army didn't go near every slave, or even a majority of the slaves. So about 20-25,000 slaves left their farms and plantations and followed Sherman on his march. That was one army group. Add to that all the contraband camps. Still not anywhere near even a quarter of the slaves in the confederacy, but still a LOT of people. There were so many they overwhelmed the government's ability to support them properly. And still they kept on coming.





False.

http://www.nytimes.com/1993/05/09/books/the-inquisition-in-mississippi.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm






Wrong again. Home guard units and slave patrols kept security. Also, the confederate government provided that one white man was exempt from conscription if he had at least 20 slaves to control. Later in the war that was reduced to 15 slaves.


I can't believe you posted that website. There is nothing proven there and the book starts off saying so.
Show another source and then I will be closer to believing the story.
 

cash

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Joined
Feb 20, 2005
Location
Right here.
I can't believe you posted that website. There is nothing proven there and the book starts off saying so.
Show another source and then I will be closer to believing the story.

You don't understand what it says.

The article is a review of a book that talks about what happened at Second Creek. There was a conspiracy among some slaves to have a revolt. This conspiracy was discovered and brutally put down with torture and murder.

When she says, "he cannot, as he concedes at the outset, really tell the story of a slave conspiracy at Second Creek. He hopes instead, he says, to offer a 'tapestry' or 'something of a story,'" she [and he] is telling us that he can't tell us the full story of what happened, only the outlines. That the plan was still in its infancy when it was discovered doesn't invalidate the fact that there were slaves who were in the initial stages of a rebellion when it was found out.

Here are some more [the list includes the Second Creek uprising]

1861
In Greensboro, Alabama, there was an insurrection of the slaves assisted by five white men. Four whites were killed and 16 African Americans hanged on the charge of making insurrection [Moore, The Rebellion Records, I, 12, (Poetry and Incidents].
TWO SLAVES AND A GIRL HANGED FOR INSURRECTION
Early in June of 1861, a plan of insurrection was reported among the slaves in Monroe County, Arkansas. The plans called for the murder of all whites and in the case of resistance, the women and children were also to be killed. Several slaves were arrested. Two men and one girl was hanged [Georgia Lee Tatum, Disloyalty in the Confederacy. Chapel Hill, 1934, p. 38].
SECOND CREEK PLOT AT NATCHEZ TO KILL THE WHITES
1862
The Second Creek plot at Natchez to kill white males and take the women as wives. When authorities learned what slaves were plotting they acted quickly and decisively by hanging every individual implicated. At least 27 slaves were hanged. The Confederate provost marshal at Natchez reported early in 1862 that 40 slaves had been hanged within that year for insurrectionary activities. Scholars will never know the exact number of insurrections just before and during the Civil War, because state governments did not reimburse owners of slaves executed at the orders of the extralegal courts. There was no official accounting because the “vigilance committees” kept quiet, and no one involved shared information on the counting of the bodies.
SERIOUS SLAVE REVOLT NEAR THIBODEAUX, LOUISIANA
About fifteen miles from Thibodeaux, Louisiana a serious slave insurrection occurred in November, which had initiated fears of a general uprising [Brigadier-General G. Weitzel to Asst. Adjutant-General G. C. Strong, November 6, 1862 in Official Reports of the Rebellion, Series I, vol. XV, p. 172].
GENERAL BUTLER REPORTS SLAVE INSURRECTION
General Butler, while stationed in New Orleans reported a slave insurrection on August 2, 1862: “An insurrection broke out among the negroes, a few miles up the river, which caused the women of that neighborhood to apply to an armed boat, belonging to us, passing down, for aid; and the incipient revolt was stopped by informing the negroes that we should repel an attack by them upon the women and children.” [New York Daily Tribune, August 14, 1862].
FIVE SLAVES HANGED FOR KILLING THEIR MASTER
1863
In Lynchburg, Virginia, five slaves were hanged for murdering their master General Dillard [The Richmond Sentinel, June 25, 1863}.
SLAVES REBEL IN RICHMOND, VIRGINIA
In May of 1863, a revolt occurred among slaves working at iron works in Richmond, Virginia. Only the leaders were punished [Aptheker: 1943, 366; also in Kathleen Bruce, Virginia Iron Manufacture in the Slave Era, p.399].
18 IMPRISONED FOR ATTEMPTED INSURRECTION
In October in Hancock County, Georgia 18 slaves were imprisoned for attempting insurrection. Few details are known about this plot
SLAVE BURNT YAZOO CITY, MISSISSIPPI
1864
In June, 1864, slaves burnt a section of Yazoo City, including 14 houses and the courthouse. It was with great difficulty that the slaves were prevented for burning the entire city [The Richmond Sentinel, June 2, 1864].
SLAVES GIVE MASTER FIVE HUNDRED LASHES
On a plantation in Choctaw County, Mississippi the slaves rebelled and turn the table of their master Nat Best, giving him 500 lashes [The Richmond Sentinel, June 2, 1864].
SLAVE REBELS AND RUN TOWARD UNION LINES
Early in 1864 in South Carolina an uprising of slaves occurred with the aim of getting to the Union forces. The revolt was suppressed by detachments of the Confederate Army [Letter of Major T. W. Brevard, dated Camp Finnegan, East Florida, April 2, 1863; Major W. P. Emanuel, dated between Ashepoo and Combahee, June 6, 1863 in Official Records of the Rebellion, Series I, vol. XIV, pp. 303, 401].

http://slaverebellion.org/index.php?page=united-states-insurrections
 

wilber6150

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Retired Moderator
Joined
Apr 1, 2009
Location
deep in the Mohawk Valley of Central New York
You don't understand what it says.

The article is a review of a book that talks about what happened at Second Creek. There was a conspiracy among some slaves to have a revolt. This conspiracy was discovered and brutally put down with torture and murder.

When she says, "he cannot, as he concedes at the outset, really tell the story of a slave conspiracy at Second Creek. He hopes instead, he says, to offer a 'tapestry' or 'something of a story,'" she [and he] is telling us that he can't tell us the full story of what happened, only the outlines. That the plan was still in its infancy when it was discovered doesn't invalidate the fact that there were slaves who were in the initial stages of a rebellion when it was found out.

Here are some more [the list includes the Second Creek uprising]

1861
In Greensboro, Alabama, there was an insurrection of the slaves assisted by five white men. Four whites were killed and 16 African Americans hanged on the charge of making insurrection [Moore, The Rebellion Records, I, 12, (Poetry and Incidents].
TWO SLAVES AND A GIRL HANGED FOR INSURRECTION
Early in June of 1861, a plan of insurrection was reported among the slaves in Monroe County, Arkansas. The plans called for the murder of all whites and in the case of resistance, the women and children were also to be killed. Several slaves were arrested. Two men and one girl was hanged [Georgia Lee Tatum, Disloyalty in the Confederacy. Chapel Hill, 1934, p. 38].
SECOND CREEK PLOT AT NATCHEZ TO KILL THE WHITES
1862
The Second Creek plot at Natchez to kill white males and take the women as wives. When authorities learned what slaves were plotting they acted quickly and decisively by hanging every individual implicated. At least 27 slaves were hanged. The Confederate provost marshal at Natchez reported early in 1862 that 40 slaves had been hanged within that year for insurrectionary activities. Scholars will never know the exact number of insurrections just before and during the Civil War, because state governments did not reimburse owners of slaves executed at the orders of the extralegal courts. There was no official accounting because the “vigilance committees” kept quiet, and no one involved shared information on the counting of the bodies.
SERIOUS SLAVE REVOLT NEAR THIBODEAUX, LOUISIANA
About fifteen miles from Thibodeaux, Louisiana a serious slave insurrection occurred in November, which had initiated fears of a general uprising [Brigadier-General G. Weitzel to Asst. Adjutant-General G. C. Strong, November 6, 1862 in Official Reports of the Rebellion, Series I, vol. XV, p. 172].
GENERAL BUTLER REPORTS SLAVE INSURRECTION
General Butler, while stationed in New Orleans reported a slave insurrection on August 2, 1862: “An insurrection broke out among the negroes, a few miles up the river, which caused the women of that neighborhood to apply to an armed boat, belonging to us, passing down, for aid; and the incipient revolt was stopped by informing the negroes that we should repel an attack by them upon the women and children.” [New York Daily Tribune, August 14, 1862].
FIVE SLAVES HANGED FOR KILLING THEIR MASTER
1863
In Lynchburg, Virginia, five slaves were hanged for murdering their master General Dillard [The Richmond Sentinel, June 25, 1863}.
SLAVES REBEL IN RICHMOND, VIRGINIA
In May of 1863, a revolt occurred among slaves working at iron works in Richmond, Virginia. Only the leaders were punished [Aptheker: 1943, 366; also in Kathleen Bruce, Virginia Iron Manufacture in the Slave Era, p.399].
18 IMPRISONED FOR ATTEMPTED INSURRECTION
In October in Hancock County, Georgia 18 slaves were imprisoned for attempting insurrection. Few details are known about this plot
SLAVE BURNT YAZOO CITY, MISSISSIPPI
1864
In June, 1864, slaves burnt a section of Yazoo City, including 14 houses and the courthouse. It was with great difficulty that the slaves were prevented for burning the entire city [The Richmond Sentinel, June 2, 1864].
SLAVES GIVE MASTER FIVE HUNDRED LASHES
On a plantation in Choctaw County, Mississippi the slaves rebelled and turn the table of their master Nat Best, giving him 500 lashes [The Richmond Sentinel, June 2, 1864].
SLAVE REBELS AND RUN TOWARD UNION LINES
Early in 1864 in South Carolina an uprising of slaves occurred with the aim of getting to the Union forces. The revolt was suppressed by detachments of the Confederate Army [Letter of Major T. W. Brevard, dated Camp Finnegan, East Florida, April 2, 1863; Major W. P. Emanuel, dated between Ashepoo and Combahee, June 6, 1863 in Official Records of the Rebellion, Series I, vol. XIV, pp. 303, 401].

http://slaverebellion.org/index.php?page=united-states-insurrections

Wow, Cash...Thanks for posting this, I never heard about any of these...The OR for the last one is quite interesting....
 

dvrmte

Major
Joined
Sep 3, 2009
Location
South Carolina
Where have you ever proven that hosptial ships under the guise of doing medical work were used in offensive operations.. The only thing you showed was that one ship was used, but never showed that it was disgusied as doing medical work.. And why wouldn't they be armed agasint partizans and bushwackers ?

.
Why do you keep referring to them as bushwackers or partisans, when they were just as likely Confederate soldiers? It was a war zone.

I showed where the Red Rover transported Sherman's troops to battle and then loaded the wounded afterwards. The entire time with a great big USN HOSPITAL plastered on its' sides. It wasn't disguised at all.
 

wilber6150

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Retired Moderator
Joined
Apr 1, 2009
Location
deep in the Mohawk Valley of Central New York
.
Why do you keep referring to them as bushwackers or partisans, when they were just as likely Confederate soldiers? It was a war zone.

I showed where the Red Rover transported Sherman's troops to battle and then loaded the wounded afterwards. The entire time with a great big USN HOSPITAL plastered on its' sides. It wasn't disguised at all.

Reading comprehension problem of your own? Your own source does not say it transported troops, it said it was part of a floatilla that did.. Its job was to guard the White River while the bombardment and storming occured, then the wounded were loaded...And if you actually take a look at the ship its pretty obvious that she wasn't meant for offensive operations, and even for the job of guarding a river, it would be more of a scouting mission, then to hold the river against enemy ships...And as for calling them bush wackers and partizans I'm calling them as they are labeled in the OR's, per the type of enemy that were firing on ships in the river..
 

wilber6150

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Retired Moderator
Joined
Apr 1, 2009
Location
deep in the Mohawk Valley of Central New York
And from the Navys history site


Red Rover
(Side wheel Steamer: tonnage 786; length 256’; draft 8’; speed 8 knots; complement 47; medical department 30+; armament 1 32-pounder)
Red Rover, the Navy's first hospital ship, was a side-wheel steamer built in 1859 at Cape Girardeau, Mo. Purchased by the Confederacy 7 November 1861, she served as CSS Red Rover (see II, 560), a barracks ship for the floating battery New Orleans. At Island No. 10, near New Madrid, Mo., from 15 March 1862, she was holed during a bombardment of that island sometime before 25 March and abandoned as a quarters ship.
When the island fell to Union forces on 7 April, Red Rover was seized by the Union gunboat Mound City, repaired, and taken to St. Louis. There she was fitted out as a summer hospital boat for the Army's Western Flotilla to augment limited Union medical facilities, to minimize the hazards to sick and wounded in fighting ships; and to ease the problems of transportation-delivery of medical supplies to and evacuation of personnel from forward areas.
Steamers, such as City of Memphis, were being used as hospital transports to carry casualties upriver, but they lacked necessary sanitary accommodations and medical staffs, and thus were unable to prevent the spread of disease.
Rapid mobilization at the start of the Civil War had vitiated efforts to prevent the outbreak and epidemic communication of disease on both sides of the conflict. Vaccination was slow; sanitation and hygiene were generally poor. Overworked military medical personnel were assisted by voluntary societies coordinated by the Sanitary Commission founded in June 1861. But by 1865 typhoid fever, typhus, dysentery, diarrhea, cholera, smallpox, measles, and malaria would claim more lives than gunshot.
Red Rover, serving first with the Army, then with the Navy, drew on both military and voluntary medical personnel. Her conversion to a hospital boat, begun at St. Louis and completed at Cairo, Ill., was accomplished with both sanitation and comfort in mind. A separate operating room was installed and equipped. A galley was put below, providing separate kitchen facilities for the patients. The cabin aft was opened for better air circulation. A steam boiler was added for laundry purposes. An elevator, numerous bathrooms, nine water closets, and gauze window blinds "... to keep cinders and smoke from annoying the sick" were also included in the work.
Barges, housed over or covered with canvas, were ordered for the care of contagious diseases, primarily smallpox, and were moored in shady spots along the river.
On 10 June 1862, Red Rover was ready for service. Her commanding officer was Captain McDaniel of the Army's Gunboat Service. Assistant Surgeon George H. Bixby became Surgeon in Charge.
On 11 June, Red Rover received her first patient, a cholera victim. By the 14th she had 55 patients. On the 17th, Mound City exploded during an engagement with Confederate batteries at St. Charles, Ark. Casualties amounted to 135 out of a complement of 175. Red Rover, dispatched to assist in the emergency, took on board extreme burn and wound cases at Memphis and transported them to less crowded hospitals in Illinois.
From Mound City, III., the hospital boat moved down-stream again and joined the Western Flotilla above Vicksburg. Through the summer, she treated sick and wounded of the flotilla and the Ram Fleet engaged at Vicksburg and along the Mississippi to Helena, Ark. While off the latter point, she caught fire, but, with assistance from the gunboat Benton, extinguished the blaze and continued her work.
In September 1862, Red Rover, still legally under the jurisdiction of an Illinois prize court, was sent to Cairo, III., to be winterized. On the 30th, she was purchased by the Navy.
The next day, the vessels of the Western Flotilla, with their officers and men, were transferred to the Navy Department and became the Mississippi Squadron under acting Rear Adm. David D. Porter. The Navy Medical Department of Western Waters was organized at the same time under Fleet Surg. Edward Gilchrist.
In December Red Rover, used during the fall to alleviate crowded medical facilities ashore, was ready for service on the river. On the 26th, she was commissioned under the command of Acting Master William R. Wells, USN. Her complement was 47, while her medical department, remaining under Assistant Surgeon Bixby, was initially about 30. Of that number, three were Sisters of the Order of the Holy Cross. Later joined by a fourth member of their order and assisted by lay nurses' aides, they were the forerunners of the Navy Nurse Corps.
The work of these and other volunteers was coordinated by the Western Sanitation Commission, which also donated over $3,000 worth of equipment to the ship.
In December 1862 Fleet Surg. Ninian A. Pinckney relieved Fleet Surg. Edward Gilchrist. The administration and strict standards of day-to-day activities of the department were so well run under Pinckney from his headquarters in Red Rover, that by 1865 he was able to write "there is less ... sickness in the Fleet than in the healthiest portion of the globe."
On the 29th, Red Rover headed downstream. During January 1863, she served with the expedition up the White River. As the expedition took the Port of Arkansas (Fort Hindman), she remained at the mouth of the river to receive the wounded. On her departure, she was fired on and two shots penetrated into the hospital area, but no casualties resulted.
From February to the fall of Vicksburg early in July, she cared for the sick and wounded of that campaign and supplemented her medical support of Union forces by provisioning other ships of the Mississippi Squadron with ice and fresh meat. She also provided burial details and sent medical personnel ashore when and where needed.
Red Rover continued her service along the river, taking on sick and wounded and delivering medicine and supplies, until the fall of 1864. In October of that year, she began her last supply run; and, after delivering medical stores to ships at Helena and on the White, Red, and Yazoo Rivers, she transferred patients to Hospital Pinckney at Memphis and headed north. Arriving at Mound City on 11 December, she remained there, caring for Navy patients, until she was decommissioned on 17 November 1865. Having admitted over 2,400 patients during her career, she transferred her last 11 to Grampus on that date. On 29 November she was sold at public auction to A. M. Carpenter.

http://www.history.navy.mil/danfs/r3/red_rover.htm

She was disguised as a hospital ship because thats the role she was filling...:O o: I have not found a single source that states she was carrying Shermans troops for offensive operations..
At most she can be accused of carrying fresh food that could be used by naval troops since she had a large cargo capacity...
 
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jgoodguy

Banished Forever
-:- A Mime -:-
is a terrible thing...
Don’t feed the Mime
Joined
Aug 17, 2011
Location
Birmingham, Alabama
jgoodguy said:
Sometimes a link is not enough.
Eggs and grits with that?

Cheese grits.

l.jpg


Now I am hungry, thanks.
 
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