Article on Forrest.

Nathanb1

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No. I neither love him nor hate him. He was a very interesting historical figure.

He was neither the knight in shining armor nor the devil in disguise. But he was very good at what he did militarily: nobody moved until they knew where Forrest was.

Exactly. Interesting. When everyone else is sitting around scratching their heads, he's acting. I can't tolerate dawdling.
 

diane

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Sherman's accomplishments were during the war. Nothing in the quote I posted refers to anything he did after the war. He had a few military appointments, then retired on a pension, traveled with his wife, wrote his memoirs, and was invited to speak at various functions. Meanwhile Forrest was back at making money off the backs of other people's labor on President's Island.

How did Sherman make a million dollars? After the war, he would give his last $500 to one of his soldiers who came to ask for his help, then try to explain to a creditor why he couldn't pay his bill.

Credit where credit is due. :smile:

Eh, point is Sherman survived a longer time after the war than Forrest did, and he was on the winning side. True, Sherman was not the best financial manager in the world and, like most of the generals on both sides, was willing to help his ex-troopers out but he was doing a whole lot better than before the war!

You keep bringing up President's Island. What's the problem? Forrest was employing inmates of the prison there, and they weren't that unhappy about it. O O Howard checked him out and just told him to correct a small problem with the housing. The workers were just fine with their 'boss'.

Forrest and Sherman were two peas in a pod. Quite similar. Suppose you put Forrest's boots on Sherman for a while. Do you think Sherman would not have been dodgy after the war? Not joined a secret organization to bring back the good ol' days? If Brownlow had been persecuting him, do you think Sherman would have meekly taken it? Would Forrest have marched through Ohio? :sneaky:
 

cash

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Cash, to answer your post.....seemed like a pretty good monkey pile last night. It's over. If we can't discuss these figures dispassionately without 1) Throwing in terms like "makes my nose wrinkle" and insinuation of stars in one's eyes, plus reporting rumor and not fact....along with a bunch blarney....and 2) then come out with "I didn't know about....." but in two seconds I've made up my mind.

That's not research. That's childish.

Which one of us has not said, uh, shall we say ... playful ... things? She has demonstrated a willingness to learn, even if a bit quick on the judgment. I know I've made up my mind and changed it again a few times on a few issues over the years. I know it's hard to believe, but I used to be really tough on Lee at Gettysburg. Lately, though, I've found myself appreciating more about what he did there and defending him. Who knows? In a few years I might be back to whipping him over it.

I'm all for dispassionate discussion, but we're all human beings here with our own set of passions. I think we can cut each other a little slack every now and then. Of course, it's also fun to take the sledge hammer out every so often and whack away. :wink:

There's also the corollary to what the noted historian said. We also all need to be reminded that it doesn't do any good to hate dead people either. They're never going to change, and it will blind us to their interesting features.
 

Nathanb1

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I would add...until you've THOROUGHLY studied reconstruction in Tennessee and all the mistakes made by the U.S. government in administering that reconstruction, perhaps a bit of restraint in judging those who lived under it would be appropriate. If O.O. Howard gives you a seal of approval, you aren't all bad. Really.
 

cash

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One more thing. Is anyone here so saintly they propose to know what's in men's souls? I, for one, am not. I leave that up to God. I guess when we pass over and meet Larry at the pearly gates, we'll know for sure. Till then, I'm keeping speculation to myself.

And if I don't get there and I meet THAT GUY, well, I'll know for sure, won't I?

Till then, let's stick to the facts and leave the speculation to those with feathers sprouting from their wings.

I have this Ouija Board ... :smile:
 

cash

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I would add...until you've THOROUGHLY studied reconstruction in Tennessee and all the mistakes made by the U.S. government in administering that reconstruction, perhaps a bit of restraint in judging those who lived under it would be appropriate. If O.O. Howard gives you a seal of approval, you aren't all bad. Really.

Most of us [myself included] are sorely lacking in Reconstruction. Right now I'm reading Eric Foner's massive tome, Reconstruction: America's Unfinished Revolution. It's packed with information, which makes it kind of slow going. I've done some other reading in it, but nowhere near what I think I should do.
 

Nathanb1

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A bit less sledge hammer and a bit more of stepping into each others' shoes would be nice.

And the part about not hating dead people....100% right. If nothing else we blind ourselves to what it was that enabled them to do bad things en masse. I forced myself to read five books on Custer and the Little Bighorn (and his performance in the Union Cavalry) this summer. Hmmmm....well, two of those happened to be written by Mr. Wittenberg, so I think they count as valid assessments. I don't hate Custer -- although he did some really nasty things. I try to understand why he did them and to understand his side of the story. Do do less is to ignore history.
 

Nathanb1

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Most of us [myself included] are sorely lacking in Reconstruction. Right now I'm reading Eric Foner's massive tome, Reconstruction: America's Unfinished Revolution. It's packed with information, which makes it kind of slow going. I've done some other reading in it, but nowhere near what I think I should do.

And to address this....you must have had much more interesting classes than my professors provided....although Reconstruction has its own fun sub-topics. (I just had to find 'em on my own!)
 

cash

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And to address this....you must have had much more interesting classes than my professors provided....although Reconstruction has its own fun sub-topics. (I just had to find 'em on my own!)

Reconstruction was always skipped in school. What I've learned about it is all from reading on my own. The Dunning School made things confusing for a long time, but Kenneth Stampp and Brooks Simpson got me past all that.
 

diane

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I mean if he is able to be that sneaky under the threat of death with all those people watching him, who knows what he would have done if they weren't watching him. Since he died just as reconstruction was ending we will never know.

Maybe not his wife but probably hit on the gal he fathered a child with.

It's not certain that ever happened.

Edit:
By the way I don't know that the first thing is true either, in case that part wasn't clear.

You seem to like to throw insinuations out there and then quickly withdraw them. Sneaky? Getting in the face of a governor who has it in for you and has the power to get you doesn't strike me as sneaky. Perhaps you could provide an example?

Fathered a child with what gal? Who did he hit? Oh...never mind. I see you withdrew it as being 'not certain', and that you didn't know. Just threw it out there to see what stuck to the wall, eh? *Sigh* Ever wonder how so much...stuff...has gotten hitched to Forrest's wagon? I don't know either. It's a mystery! :rolleyes:
 

suzenatale

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You seem to like to throw insinuations out there and then quickly withdraw them. Sneaky? Getting in the face of a governor who has it in for you and has the power to get you doesn't strike me as sneaky. Perhaps you could provide an example?

Fathered a child with what gal? Who did he hit? Oh...never mind. I see you withdrew it as being 'not certain', and that you didn't know. Just threw it out there to see what stuck to the wall, eh? *Sigh* Ever wonder how so much...stuff...has gotten hitched to Forrest's wagon? I don't know either. It's a mystery! :rolleyes:
It was sarcasm in response to Nathanb1 unsubstantiated claim there diane.
 

suzenatale

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At least I read your information. Mine was sarcasm, too, in case you missed it. Guess there's a lot of that going around.
:thumbsup:
gunpowder.jpg


We probably shouldn't smoke around this gunpowder. :biggrin:
 

Diana9

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You seem to like to throw insinuations out there and then quickly withdraw them. Sneaky? Getting in the face of a governor who has it in for you and has the power to get you doesn't strike me as sneaky. Perhaps you could provide an example?

Fathered a child with what gal? Who did he hit? Oh...never mind. I see you withdrew it as being 'not certain', and that you didn't know. Just threw it out there to see what stuck to the wall, eh? *Sigh* Ever wonder how so much...stuff...has gotten hitched to Forrest's wagon? I don't know either. It's a mystery! :rolleyes:

To be fair, her comment "not certain" referred to Chamberlain hitting his wife.


At least he didn't hit his wife.

The comment about "hit his wife." Is that an allusion to Chamberlain?


It's not certain that ever happened.
 
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BillO

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Most of us [myself included] are sorely lacking in Reconstruction. Right now I'm reading Eric Foner's massive tome, Reconstruction: America's Unfinished Revolution. It's packed with information, which makes it kind of slow going. I've done some other reading in it, but nowhere near what I think I should do.
I've got a copy as well. Not light reading to be sure but full of information. I've plowed through it once and I should probably wrestle with it once again.
 

suzenatale

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To be fair, her comment "not certain" referred to Chamberlain hitting his wife.
Oh, yes you are right Diana, I didn't notice how her quote had omitted what I was responding to. I thought she was referring to my second comment where I was trying to clarify that my response was meant to be equally unproven.
 

diane

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Oh, yes you are right Diana, I didn't notice how her quote had omitted what I was responding to. I thought she was referring to my second comment where I was trying to clarify that my response was meant to be equally unproven.

*Sigh*. I hate the insinuation that I'm somehow slick. Thought it was cleared up anyway.

There are just folks around who must get every thread on this general moderated.
 

KLSDAD

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You keep bringing up President's Island. What's the problem? Forrest was employing inmates of the prison there, and they weren't that unhappy about it. O O Howard checked him out and just told him to correct a small problem with the housing. The workers were just fine with their 'boss'.
Dang....... I put River Run Red back on the shelf and was hoping not to open it again for a good long time. IIRC, Ward was quite critical of President's Island and didn't mention OO Howard's assesment at all. That could be explained by a faulty memory on my part or...........
 
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