Are individual soldiers' motivations important?

jgoodguy

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This reminds me of discussing this topic elsewhere, where I had the following exchange with a fellow poster:

him - I've read what you've written, and it seems to be a lot of trying to muddy the fact that these men were traitors fighting to preserve an immoral institution. There motivation for fighting doesn't matter. Quit trying to ennoble them by saying "they weren't fighting for slavery". They were villains, each and every one, and their legacy lives on in the South today.​
me - History is much more complicated than you portray it here. I have an ancestor who was in the Confederate army. He was there because he was conscripted. He was wounded in the hand at the battle of Fredericksburg and sent to the hospital. He went AWOL for most of 1863, but was eventually arrested and returned to service. He was captured at the 3rd battle of Winchester in September 1864 and spent the last months of the war as a POW at Point Lookout in Maryland. Was he a villain?​
him - Yep.​
This is a perfect example of the modern version of the northern narrative. Lump every last southern man who fought for the CS into one group and condemn them all. It's not nuanced, it's not factual, it's simply judgmental.

Discuss.
 
WHO? I would like to know exactly where in their various collections at AHEC. As I stated, I have not looked at everything in their voluminous collections. They do not have individual finding aids for the entire collection. I would like you to produce just one common soldier's letter that clearly states that their motivation for fighting was either to destroy slavery or to defend slavery. Shelby Foote in Burn's Civil War documentary tells a story of how a Union soldier asks a Rebel soldier why he was fighting in this terrible war, the Rebel soldier's response was because you are down here, meaning in the South. Nothing about slavery!!! Nevertheless, So thrill me with your acumen. Produce the evidence!!! David.
See p.19 of McPherson . Most definitely Abolitionists are mentioned and protecting property. What do Confederate soldiers mean by " property"? Slaves are property and after the EP could be taken away. At no time did the Union Army ever confiscate land from any Southerner other then the Arlington Plantation from Lee.
Leftyhunter
 
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Individuals motivations are why individuals enlist (assuming they weren't drafted), after that the motivations become survive, help my buddies survive.

Bottom line individual motivations during a period of war are far less important than most would believe.
Yet there are many examples of soldiers deserting or defecting to another army even one invading their homeland. So motivation is vital that is why armies spend a lot of time in motivating their troops. At least the more successful ones.
Leftyhunter
 
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Individuals motivations are why individuals enlist (assuming they weren't drafted), after that the motivations become survive, help my buddies survive.

Bottom line individual motivations during a period of war are far less important than most would believe.

It depends on what a person is looking for.

However take the War of The Roses, who cares why the privates fought. They were told to fight and they did.
 
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Depended on the racial makeup of the worker. What does this have to do with the Civil War?
Black people found jobs in the North that payed at least 13 dollars a month. Deserters could find jobs in the North has well that paid the same or better then military service and were safer. Point being 13 a month alone would not guarantee proper motivation to a soldier. Remember there was no government welfare in the ACW one worked ,stole or starved.
Leftyhunter
 
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Black people found jobs in the North that payed at least 13 dollars a month. Deserters could find jobs in the North has well that paid the same or better then military service and were safer. Point being 13 a month Aline would not guarantee proper motivation to a soldier. Remember there was no government welfare in the ACW one worked ,stole or starved.
Leftyhunter
Most weren’t welcome in many areas of the north. The Irish included, thus draft riots.
 
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jgoodguy. I have been doing research at the Army Heritage and Education Center in Carlisle, Pennsylvania for the last four years for my articles and I have examined literally thousands of individual soldier's letters from both sides and I have not found one letter that states the main reason or motivation for that particular soldier's reason for fighting being slavery, either defending the institution or destroying the institution. Perhaps there are letters at this research institution that I have not seen at this time but from what I have seen so far I would say it is highly not probable. I therefore concur wholeheartedly with your response. David.
Also @Cavalry Charger
See p.48 of McPherson
After the EP was signed a Kentucky Cavalry Sergeant who rode with Morgan wrote ,Proclivity is worth three hundred thousand soldiers to our government at least" it shows exactly what this war was brought about for and the intention of its damnable author's".
P.49 a Confederate Colonel is giddy that the price of slaves rose after the EP due to Confederate victories.
Leftyhunter
 
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They were told to fight and they did.
And, that is the point. Not why the individual fought; his personal opinion had little to do with it. The important point is, why there was a war to be fought at all.

You are in the army of your 'country' (whether whether by choice or conscription is irrelevant), and that country tells you to fight ... you fight (or face the consequences). The war objectives of your country, like it or not, become your objectives.
 
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When studying an individual soldier ther motivation is important to tell their. As for the reason for the War, it is not very important what individual's motivation was.

This said, certain aspects of the War, such as desertion rates, are impacted by motivation. Motivation also can be used to study things like voluntary enlistments.

The problem occurs when trying to use individual motivations as a reason for a war.
 
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“In the North, however, African Americans were generally denied skilled jobs. Southern migrants were particularly disadvantaged since they were more likely than Northern-born blacks to have job skills.
Employment records for Philadelphia reveal that during the late 1850s, "Less than two-thirds of [black workers] who have trades follow them" and "the greater number are compelled to abandon their trades on account of the unrelenting prejudice against their color." The situation in Boston, with its large immigrant population, was even worse. There, one foreign visitor reported seeing almost no black skilled workers in 1833. The few exceptions were "one or two employed as printers, one blacksmith and one shoemaker."
In New York City, although officials announced that they would "issue licenses to all regardless of race," they soon buckled under pressure from white workers to exclude African Americans from jobs requiring special permits.
African Americans found it almost impossible to obtain licenses as hack drivers or pushcart operators, denying them important opportunities to become small businessmen. Willis Hodges reported in the 1840s that in Virginia both enslaved and free blacks had trades and he "had expected to find the people of color in free New York far better off than those in Virginia." Instead, he found that "many tradesmen the [i.e., he] knew from the South were cooks and waiters."
Cincinnati was no different. There, one white mechanic was reprimanded by the Mechanical Association for taking on a black apprentice, and a leader of another labor organization was called to account by his group for having helped a young African-American man learn a trade.”


http://www.inmotionaame.org/print.cfm;jsessionid=f8302422051551102274815?migration=7&bhcp=

Back to the OP......
 
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jgoodguy. I have been doing research at the Army Heritage and Education Center in Carlisle, Pennsylvania for the last four years for my articles and I have examined literally thousands of individual soldier's letters from both sides and I have not found one letter that states the main reason or motivation for that particular soldier's reason for fighting being slavery, either defending the institution or destroying the institution. Perhaps there are letters at this research institution that I have not seen at this time but from what I have seen so far I would say it is highly not probable. I therefore concur wholeheartedly with your response. David.
See p.50and 51 of McPherson definitely slavery is an issue.
" Every reflecting child will glance at a darkey and laugh at the idea of such an abstract right" in discussing the concept of human rights.
" We are fighting against the tyranny of the North who are determined to destroy slavery"
Leftyhunter
 
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“In the North, however, African Americans were generally denied skilled jobs. Southern migrants were particularly disadvantaged since they were more likely than Northern-born blacks to have job skills.
Employment records for Philadelphia reveal that during the late 1850s, "Less than two-thirds of [black workers] who have trades follow them" and "the greater number are compelled to abandon their trades on account of the unrelenting prejudice against their color." The situation in Boston, with its large immigrant population, was even worse. There, one foreign visitor reported seeing almost no black skilled workers in 1833. The few exceptions were "one or two employed as printers, one blacksmith and one shoemaker."
In New York City, although officials announced that they would "issue licenses to all regardless of race," they soon buckled under pressure from white workers to exclude African Americans from jobs requiring special permits.
African Americans found it almost impossible to obtain licenses as hack drivers or pushcart operators, denying them important opportunities to become small businessmen. Willis Hodges reported in the 1840s that in Virginia both enslaved and free blacks had trades and he "had expected to find the people of color in free New York far better off than those in Virginia." Instead, he found that "many tradesmen the [i.e., he] knew from the South were cooks and waiters."
Cincinnati was no different. There, one white mechanic was reprimanded by the Mechanical Association for taking on a black apprentice, and a leader of another labor organization was called to account by his group for having helped a young African-American man learn a trade.”


http://www.inmotionaame.org/print.cfm;jsessionid=f8302422051551102274815?migration=7&bhcp=

Back to the OP......
My point is black others could earn $13 a month without fighting.
Leftyhunter
 
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@NH Civil War Gal and @archieclement ,@uaskne
P.53 McPherson
An Arkansas Captain was enraged by the ideas that if the Yankee won " his sister,wife and mother are to be given up to the arms of their present dusky male servitors"
Another Arkansas soldier a planter write " so imagine your sweet little girls in the school room with a black wooly headed Negro and have to treat him as an equal"
Leftyhunter
 
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Outside of Confederate advocates defending Southern soldiers I know of no-one else in the world that is concerned about individual soldiers' motives. Can someone enlighten me?

I gave your question a "Like" since I interpreted it --and possibly incorrectly-- to mean when it comes to a government's reason for going to war, does the individual soldier's motive matter? If my interpretation is correct then I say no. If I'm incorrect then I'm not familiar with any studies, books or general concerns for the motives of soldiers that went off to America's various wars throughout our history.
 
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