Any idea who this might be? Confederate General?

William Wit

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Aug 10, 2017
Location
Charleston SC
Hey everyone - I don't post often, so please forgive me if this is the wrong area to post this question in. I picked up this tintype relatively inexpensively (it's in 3 pieces and discolored), but thought it was still interesting enough to research.

Looks like it MIGHT be a general's coat but I'm not sure. The seller thought it was a Confederate general coat and it MAY be, but I'm not 100% on that. Just for kicks, I found a helpful wiki page and took some time to go through photos of all the Confederate generals (which was exhausting), and the one that looks the closest to me is Abner Perrin...

I was mainly looking for substantial signs of balding, a large beard that covered the mouth area totally, and eyebrows that slanted slightly downward. Hardly an exact science here, but that's what I have to go on. Coincidentally, he was born in South Carolina, which is where I found this tintype.

No writing on the case it lives in at all. Apologize for the crappy photo - lots of glare so I had to zoom in to get around it.

Any ideas? Look like anyone to you guys? Thanks.
 

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Hey everyone - I don't post often, so please forgive me if this is the wrong area to post this question in. I picked up this tintype relatively inexpensively (it's in 3 pieces and discolored), but thought it was still interesting enough to research.

Looks like it MIGHT be a general's coat but I'm not sure. The seller thought it was a Confederate general coat and it MAY be, but I'm not 100% on that. Just for kicks, I found a helpful wiki page and took some time to go through photos of all the Confederate generals (which was exhausting), and the one that looks the closest to me is Abner Perrin:
I was mainly looking for substantial signs of balding, a large beard that covered the mouth area totally, and eyebrows that slanted slightly downward. Hardly an exact science here, but that's what I have to go on. Coincidentally, he was born in South Carolina, which is where I found this tintype.

No writing on the case it lives in at all. Apologize for the crappy photo - lots of glare so I had to zoom in to get around it.

Any ideas? Look like anyone to you guys? Thanks.

Looks like "Grumble" Jones ?

jones, william edmondson.jpg

Brigadier-General William E. "Grumble" Jones of s.w.Virginia


Brigadier-General William E. Jones was born near Glade Spring,
Washington county, Va., in May, 1824. He was educated at
Emory and Henry college and at West Point, and began service
in the United States army with the rank of brevet second
lieutenant in the class of 1848.

In 1847 he had received from Emory and Henry college the
degree of master of arts. His connection with the old army
continued until his resignation in 1857, he then having the
rank of first lieutenant, mounted rifles.

During this period he first served in Missouri and Kansas,
marched to Oregon in 1849, remained there and in Washington
Territory until 1851, and after that was mainly on duty in
Texas. After his retirement he was engaged in farming in his
native county until 1861.

Upon the passage of the ordinance of secession he had ready a
company of cavalry, the Washington Mounted Rifles, with which
he joined Stuart in the Valley and took part in the First
Manassas campaign. At this time Gen. J. E. Johnston declared
that his company was the strongest in the First Virginia
cavalry regiment, "not surpassed in discipline and spirit by
any in the army," and recommended that Stuart be given brigade
command and that Jones, "skillful, brave and zealous in a very
high degree, " should succeed to the colonelcy, with Fitzhugh
Lee as lieutenant-colonel.

Consequently he became colonel of the First, upon the
organization of Stuart's brigade, and in the spring of 1862
was intrusted by Stuart with important duties in watching the
enemy from the Blue ridge to the Potomac. He was watchful and
vigorous and made the enemy feel his presence.

Soon afterward, being displaced by a regimental election, he
was assigned to the Seventh regiment, Robertson's brigade.
Rejoining Stuart in August he was distinguished in the Second
Manassas campaign, his regiment fighting splendidly at Brandy
Station, and winning commendation on several other occasions.

He participated in the raid around McClellan's army following
the battle of Sharpsburg, and on November 8th, having been
promoted brigadier-general, was assigned to command of
Robertson's, or the "Laurel brigade," largely composed of the
men who followed Ashby in the valley.

December 29th he was assigned to command of the Valley
district, including his brigade and all other troops operating
in that region, being selected for this post by Stonewall
Jackson. With the co-operation of General Imboden he made, in
April and May, 1863, a very successful raid upon the Baltimore
& Ohio railroad west of Cumberland, destroying an immense
amount of public and railroad property.

Then joining Stuart with his splendid brigade, he bore the
first shock, and both in morning and evening the brunt of
battle, in the famous cavalry fight of Brandy Station, June 9,
1863, his brigade ending the fight with more horses and more
and better smallarms than at the beginning, and capturing two
regimental colors, a battery of three pieces and about 250
prisoners.

During the advance of Lee into Pennsylvania, Jones, who had
been pronounced by Stuart "the best outpost officer" in the
cavalry, was depended upon mainly to cover the rear and flank
of the army. He defeated a Federal cavalry regiment at
Fairfield, Pa., and after the retreat of Lee was begun pushed
forward rapidly to protect the wagon trains of Ewell's
division.

Hurrying on with his staff on the night of July 4th, he found
Emack's Maryland company with one gun, holding at bay a
Federal division, with only half the train gone by. He joined
in the desperate fight in person and with his companions until
his command was scattered by a charge of cavalry. Separated
from his followers, he made his way alone to Williamsport and
organized all the men he could gather in the confusion for the
defense of the place before the arrival of Imboden.

Then, with half a dozen companies, he made his way through the
enemy's lines to his command, and returned with it to
participate in the attacks on Kilpatrick at Hagerstown and on
Buford at Williamsport. During the campaign, he reported, his
brigade fought in three battles and the affair at Boonsboro,
and captured over 600 prisoners.

Soon afterward an unfortunate break in his relations with
General Stuart, which had existed since the fall of 1861,
became so intensified as to have serious results. Col. O. R.
Funsten was given temporary command of the brigade, and on
October 9th General Jones was ordered to report for duty in
south west Virginia.

There he organized an excellent cavalry brigade, with which he
co-operated with Longstreet in east Tennessee, and in November
defeated the enemy near Rogersville. At Saltville, Va., in
May, 1864, with Gen. John H. Morgan, he foiled Averell's
designs against that post, defeated the Federals at
Wytheville, and pursued them to Dublin.

On May 23rd he was assigned to command of the department of
Southwest Virginia in the absence of General Breckinridge. It
was at that moment a position of great importance, as the
district was in a turmoil on account of the incursions of
Averell and Crook and Sigel, and Hunter was preparing to
advance on Lynchburg.

Early in June three strong columns of the enemy were marching
against him, and he made a stand with his own brigade,
Imboden's and Vaughn's before Hunter, at Piedmont. In the
desperate fight which followed, June 5th, he was killed and
his body fell into the hands of the enemy.

Source: Confederate Military History, vol. IV, p. 616
 
Looks like "Grumble" Jones ?

Wow, I think you may have scored a direct hit there! If it's not him, he's a dead ringer for sure. Thank you so much for taking the time to check it out - means a lot. Of course it's always difficult to be 100% sure, but man, it really does look like it's him. It fits...

Thanks again-
Dave
 
Hey everyone - I don't post often, so please forgive me if this is the wrong area to post this question in. I picked up this tintype relatively inexpensively (it's in 3 pieces and discolored), but thought it was still interesting enough to research.

Looks like it MIGHT be a general's coat but I'm not sure. The seller thought it was a Confederate general coat and it MAY be, but I'm not 100% on that. Just for kicks, I found a helpful wiki page and took some time to go through photos of all the Confederate generals (which was exhausting), and the one that looks the closest to me is Abner Perrin...

I was mainly looking for substantial signs of balding, a large beard that covered the mouth area totally, and eyebrows that slanted slightly downward. Hardly an exact science here, but that's what I have to go on. Coincidentally, he was born in South Carolina, which is where I found this tintype.

No writing on the case it lives in at all. Apologize for the crappy photo - lots of glare so I had to zoom in to get around it.

Any ideas? Look like anyone to you guys? Thanks.
Thanks for posting this. I enjoy seeing these old photos and trying to solve their mysteries.
Sorry, but I have no idea who this might be. But I do have a question: what- other than the seller's belief- leads you to believe his clothing is a rebel uniform? I will appreciate any pointers on identifying uniforms....
 
He was not so famously poorly tempered before losing his wife, very young ( I think ), in a shipwreck. It's one of those stories which is so horribly sad, it sounds like someone made it up. He somehow lost his hold on her in the chaos, and she was drowned. Can't imagine.

Yeah that’s just brutal. Probably why he charged headfirst into the action. Terrible..
 
Thanks for posting this. I enjoy seeing these old photos and trying to solve their mysteries.
Sorry, but I have no idea who this might be. But I do have a question: what- other than the seller's belief- leads you to believe his clothing is a rebel uniform? I will appreciate any pointers on identifying uniforms....

The flap on the left there (despite being in the section with discoloration), is a big flap on a coat and looks like confederate general costs I’ve seen before. Regular confederate soldiers could literally be wearing anything, grey or not, but this guy looks like he’s wearing something nicer that wouldn’t be available to the normal soldier.

I dunno, but it just seems like it’s there as a general’s coat. Like this: http://my.silkdesk.com/content/stat...ate-Brigadier-Generals-Frock-Coat-in-Wool.jpg
 
The flap on the left there (despite being in the section with discoloration), is a big flap on a coat and looks like confederate general costs I’ve seen before. Regular confederate soldiers could literally be wearing anything, grey or not, but this guy looks like he’s wearing something nicer that wouldn’t be available to the normal soldier.

I dunno, but it just seems like it’s there as a general’s coat. Like this: http://my.silkdesk.com/content/stat...ate-Brigadier-Generals-Frock-Coat-in-Wool.jpg
Thanks for your response.
That helps. Still, I can't stop wondering if he was sitting for a uniform photo, why he didn't wear something more clearly military, something showing his rank, as so many did....
 
It looks like a Confederate Officer's sack coat. A.P. Hill was fond of them, so I'm not surprised that Grumble Jones would wear one too. That is definitely Jones though.
View attachment 159577

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Oh wow that’s amazing. Learned something new! I wish my photo wasn’t discolored in that spot - would make it much easier to ID the coat. But thanks for sharing - that’s awesome!
 
Thanks for your response.
That helps. Still, I can't stop wondering if he was sitting for a uniform photo, why he didn't wear something more clearly military, something showing his rank, as so many did....

Dunno. See that post above with the sack coat generals sometimes wore. I think he’s wearing that, but it’s tough to see with the discoloration. I don’t mind it being in 3 pieces because it’s holding together pretty well. Just wish it wasn’t ALSO discolored.

But hey - it’s a Civil War general tintype - and a Confederate one at that, which I picked up for cheap. Can’t complain at all!
 
Another Grumble photo that has good resemblance to OP's: http://www.civilwaralbum.com/misc5/fairfield_participants.htm

I'd love to see higher resolution scans of both.

Ah, that’s gotta be him. I have a pro Canon DSLR setup, so I’ll get a better quality shot soon. I’ll also take it out of the case so there’s no glare or anything. I cleaned the glass but it’s still 150+ years old after all.

I’m pretty stoked. Because it was in 3 pieces and discolored I picked it up for cheap. The seller said “we think it might be Longstreet.” I knew it wasn’t him but it was such a good deal that I thought just researching it would be fun. Now it’s most likely a confederate cw general. And it’s got a cool story!

I have 2 other CW soldier tintypes but they’re both Union soldiers. I’ve never seen another confederate one in person. Which is crazy as I live in the south, but I digress.
 
Dunno. See that post above with the sack coat generals sometimes wore. I think he’s wearing that, but it’s tough to see with the discoloration. I don’t mind it being in 3 pieces because it’s holding together pretty well. Just wish it wasn’t ALSO discolored.

But hey - it’s a Civil War general tintype - and a Confederate one at that, which I picked up for cheap. Can’t complain at all!
Thanks for your response.
This has been a most informative thread. And you are right: nothing to complain about in that purchase.
 
Thanks for your response.
This has been a most informative thread. And you are right: nothing to complain about in that purchase.

Very informative indeed. I always love posting here because I’m far from an expert - just an enthusiastic collector. I always research endlessly but sometimes a fresh set of eyes helps.

I’m sure one day I might be on the other side and be able to shed some light on something. Sharing historical knowledge is so critical!
 
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