Limited And here it comes for the North - as predicted

NH Civil War Gal

1st Lieutenant
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[2] By failing to acknowledge the Union victory as a long-overdue deliverance of the egalitarian principles under which the nation was founded, Northern Civil War monuments contributed to a collective historical ignorance that surrounded the war’s meaning and memory for decades. Rather than make a definitive statement on the Civil War’s emancipationist outcomes, the vast majority of Union monuments bypassed the issue of slavery altogether and instead expressed the war’s purpose in far more temperate terms.

I've fallen on my sword a number of times over this, but I'll do it again in this particular forum. Four-years-ago I though everyone was crazy about any monuments coming down. I really did. When I first joined CWT, I thought people were just being hysterical. Then I realized they weren't. I've never seen such a shift in political opinion in the land as I have over the last four years and I've been an election official for 11 years. I started to believe you Southerners when you said they would come for the North and I've been waiting for it and finally this article arrived.

That's why I've been out and about photographing in my travels the little town monuments of Union soldiers because now they are going to be offensive.

The only phrase I can think of that fits all that happening right now is this: "The tyranny of anarcho-Progressivism that is raging."
 

Andersonh1

Brigadier General
Moderator
Joined
Jan 12, 2016
Location
South Carolina
Thanks for sharing this. It's happened far more quickly than I thought it would, a testament to how rapidly this attack on our common American history is moving today. And what does the author of the linked article say the problem is? The monuments didn't talk about slavery, so they "contributed to a collective historical ignorance."

By failing to acknowledge the Union victory as a long-overdue deliverance of the egalitarian principles under which the nation was founded, Northern Civil War monuments contributed to a collective historical ignorance that surrounded the war’s meaning and memory for decades. Rather than make a definitive statement on the Civil War’s emancipationist outcomes, the vast majority of Union monuments bypassed the issue of slavery altogether and instead expressed the war’s purpose in far more temperate terms.​
In fact, he makes no real distinction between North and South neglecting to put slavery front and center:
...in the frenetic postwar race to erect tangible interpretations of the war’s legacy, Northerners and Southerners found common ground. In their physical manifestations and their inscriptions, Confederate and Union memorials generally paid nondescript homage to the soldiers who had periled or lost their lives in the war. While many Northern monuments touted guardianship of the Union as the main impetus for war, and Southern monuments conversely pointed to states’ rights, the question of whether or not this was a war to abolish slavery remained unclear. In fact, anyone visiting Civil War monuments in either region was likely to get the impression that the war had nothing at all to do with emancipation.​
The author has taken the approach that we often see from the extremists today: think and say what they want you to think and say, or be removed from public life. So now the generation a century or more ago that put these up should not have expressed their point of view, they should have anticipated the future and expressed a 21st Century point of view.

Men on both sides put their lives on the line during that war, sometimes gave their lives, for what they believed in, and the survivors on both sides who had suffered the loss of family and friends memorialized them as they saw fit, as was their right. Some today like the author of this article, Darren Berry, "independent scholar and high school teacher", apparently feels free to sit in his quite comfortable classroom and pass judgment on all of them, North and South alike. There's an arrogance, and a lack of empathy and understanding there that is stunning, in my view, but sadly common today.
 
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John Winn

Major
Joined
Mar 13, 2014
Location
State of Jefferson
"The tyranny of anarcho-Progressivism that is raging."
Yep. And it's going to get crazier (y'all can quote me on that).

Now we can't just erect a monument to the dead unless it also expresses a "progressive" sentiment (if I can call it that). I can't really comment without getting zapped for discussing politics or social issues or whatnot. Let's just say it's part of the cancel culture that's in the streets and simply wants to destroy things (like museums, historical societies, police departments, the traditional nuclear family; you know, immoral racist things we need to rid our society of).
 

Viper21

Brigadier General
Moderator
Silver Patron
Joined
Jul 4, 2016
Location
Rockbridge County, Virginia

[2] By failing to acknowledge the Union victory as a long-overdue deliverance of the egalitarian principles under which the nation was founded, Northern Civil War monuments contributed to a collective historical ignorance that surrounded the war’s meaning and memory for decades. Rather than make a definitive statement on the Civil War’s emancipationist outcomes, the vast majority of Union monuments bypassed the issue of slavery altogether and instead expressed the war’s purpose in far more temperate terms.

I've fallen on my sword a number of times over this, but I'll do it again in this particular forum. Four-years-ago I though everyone was crazy about any monuments coming down. I really did. When I first joined CWT, I thought people were just being hysterical. Then I realized they weren't. I've never seen such a shift in political opinion in the land as I have over the last four years and I've been an election official for 11 years. I started to believe you Southerners when you said they would come for the North and I've been waiting for it and finally this article arrived.
You have earned my respect @NH Civil War Gal Few folks admit when they're wrong. Especially in this type of format, or in heated discussions. I remember those conversations a few years ago. One of those rare occasions where, I had hoped to be wrong. I believed at the time that, the unintended consequences would bite lots of folks in the backside. Wish it wasn't so. I've said repeatedly, I don't want any monument to come down.

I can't say I'll shed a tear if a monument to Sherman, Sheridan, or Hunter comes down but, I won't like it, or support that happening.

Unfortunately, this craze goes even further, if it's allowed to. NONE of the monuments in this country are safe, long term. If this madness isn't nipped in the bud, which apparently it isn't going to be, all will be on the chopping block. Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, etc... Think I'm being dramatic...? I've seen just this week, a group of folks calling for removal of the WWII memorial in DC. I can't even imagine the Greatest Generation, having to witness that.

Once again, I hope I'm wrong, & that words like honor, & respect become commonplace again. I weep for my country :frown:
 

PapaReb

First Sergeant
Joined
Feb 9, 2020
Location
Arkansas CSA occupied
There are those among us that deem us fear mongers but these days are proving that much of what we have warned about is coming to pass. I still hold out hope that this madness can be stopped but even if it is we have already lost much...if it does continue I believe that very quickly it will escalate to armed conflict. I urge all of you to keep your eyes open and be safe.
 

PapaReb

First Sergeant
Joined
Feb 9, 2020
Location
Arkansas CSA occupied
Thank you for the compliment. I thought everyone in the forum was here to learn and to admit if and when mistakes were made or viewpoints changed as new info came along. No shame in admitting when you’re wrong.
I wish all of us had your level of integrity, maturity and grace @NH Civil War Gal
 
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Viper21

Brigadier General
Moderator
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I had NO idea about the WWII memorial in DC! This is beyond out of control. What is their reasoning for that?
I'm not gonna sidetrack this thread with that but, google is your friend :wink: There have been calls for most every monument you could imagine to come down. Some of these requests have come from politicians currently in power.
 

connecticut yankee

First Sergeant
Joined
Jun 2, 2017

[2] By failing to acknowledge the Union victory as a long-overdue deliverance of the egalitarian principles under which the nation was founded, Northern Civil War monuments contributed to a collective historical ignorance that surrounded the war’s meaning and memory for decades. Rather than make a definitive statement on the Civil War’s emancipationist outcomes, the vast majority of Union monuments bypassed the issue of slavery altogether and instead expressed the war’s purpose in far more temperate terms.

I've fallen on my sword a number of times over this, but I'll do it again in this particular forum. Four-years-ago I though everyone was crazy about any monuments coming down. I really did. When I first joined CWT, I thought people were just being hysterical. Then I realized they weren't. I've never seen such a shift in political opinion in the land as I have over the last four years and I've been an election official for 11 years. I started to believe you Southerners when you said they would come for the North and I've been waiting for it and finally this article arrived.

That's why I've been out and about photographing in my travels the little town monuments of Union soldiers because now they are going to be offensive.

The only phrase I can think of that fits all that happening right now is this: "The tyranny of anarcho-Progressivism that is raging."
Excellent article! Very thought provoking. Thanks for sharing.

I think we as a nation should emulate widely what Leominster, Ma. has done regarding its Civil War monument erected in 1866. Rather than tear the monument down since it apparently didn't in the town's present day judgment acknowledge the cause of slavery and emancipation, the folks of Leominster wisely erected a second Civil War monument 132 years later which further explains and amplifies what the Civil War means to them. In effect, this second monument serves well the purposes of what I call "interpretive plaques" that other localities find necessary to attach to their monuments to give the momuments fuller meaning and understanding.

No need to take existing monuments down, whatever shortfalls in thinking they may represent. Instead lets add those interpretive plaques, or better still, let's erect additional monuments that will serve to add to what we believe is the fuller truth of why the Civil War occurred.
 

jcaesar

Private
Joined
Aug 28, 2020
That's what has got me! I never, ever thought it would or could move at the speed it has.

That has surprised me as well, but the movement going hyper speed is heavily a result of little push back. Make no mistake this is all an outgrowth of pre-existing movements... this is 'cancel culture' having its attention focused upon history.
 
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Quaama

Sergeant
Joined
Sep 13, 2020
Location
Port Macquarie, Australia
That's what has got me! I never, ever thought it would or could move at the speed it has.

Regrettably, the speed could increase significantly when Section 442 of H.R.7608 is passed. It states:
"Notwithstanding any other provision of law or policy to the contrary, within 180 days of enactment of this Act, the National Park Service shall remove from display all physical Confederate commemorative works, such as statues, monuments, sculptures, memorials, and plaques, as defined by NPS, Management Policies 2006, §9.6.1."
This basically means all Confederate commemorative works (even plaques) in historic battlefields.
 

Quaama

Sergeant
Joined
Sep 13, 2020
Location
Port Macquarie, Australia
You have earned my respect @NH Civil War Gal Few folks admit when they're wrong. Especially in this type of format, or in heated discussions. I remember those conversations a few years ago. One of those rare occasions where, I had hoped to be wrong. I believed at the time that, the unintended consequences would bite lots of folks in the backside. Wish it wasn't so. I've said repeatedly, I don't want any monument to come down.

I can't say I'll shed a tear if a monument to Sherman, Sheridan, or Hunter comes down but, I won't like it, or support that happening.

Unfortunately, this craze goes even further, if it's allowed to. NONE of the monuments in this country are safe, long term. If this madness isn't nipped in the bud, which apparently it isn't going to be, all will be on the chopping block. Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, etc... Think I'm being dramatic...? I've seen just this week, a group of folks calling for removal of the WWII memorial in DC. I can't even imagine the Greatest Generation, having to witness that.

Once again, I hope I'm wrong, & that words like honor, & respect become commonplace again. I weep for my country :frown:

Now even the mere name of historic figures must also be erased from schools and elsewhere in California as mentioned in this article with a full Poll List here. The names include: Jefferson; Sherman; Washington; Revere; Sheridan; and a host of others (including Robert Louis Stevenson which bewilders me).
 

Stone in the wall

Sergeant Major
Joined
Sep 19, 2017
Location
Blue Ridge Mountains, Jefferson County WV
You have earned my respect @NH Civil War Gal Few folks admit when they're wrong. Especially in this type of format, or in heated discussions. I remember those conversations a few years ago. One of those rare occasions where, I had hoped to be wrong. I believed at the time that, the unintended consequences would bite lots of folks in the backside. Wish it wasn't so. I've said repeatedly, I don't want any monument to come down.

I can't say I'll shed a tear if a monument to Sherman, Sheridan, or Hunter comes down but, I won't like it, or support that happening.

Unfortunately, this craze goes even further, if it's allowed to. NONE of the monuments in this country are safe, long term. If this madness isn't nipped in the bud, which apparently it isn't going to be, all will be on the chopping block. Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, etc... Think I'm being dramatic...? I've seen just this week, a group of folks calling for removal of the WWII memorial in DC. I can't even imagine the Greatest Generation, having to witness that.

Once again, I hope I'm wrong, & that words like honor, & respect become commonplace again. I weep for my country :frown:
Nor will I shed a tear over the terrible three, but they are part of our history.
 

jcaesar

Private
Joined
Aug 28, 2020

danny

Sergeant
Joined
Feb 20, 2005
Location
Hattiesburg
Excellent article! Very thought provoking. Thanks for sharing.

I think we as a nation should emulate widely what Leominster, Ma. has done regarding its Civil War monument erected in 1866. Rather than tear the monument down since it apparently didn't in the town's present day judgment acknowledge the cause of slavery and emancipation, the folks of Leominster wisely erected a second Civil War monument 132 years later which further explains and amplifies what the Civil War means to them. In effect, this second monument serves well the purposes of what I call "interpretive plaques" that other localities find necessary to attach to their monuments to give the momuments fuller meaning and understanding.

No need to take existing monuments down, whatever shortfalls in thinking they may represent. Instead lets add those interpretive plaques, or better still, let's erect additional monuments that will serve to add to what we believe is the fuller truth of why the Civil War occurred.
I disagree with this blatant revisionism to suit ever changing generational interpretations.

It was what it was, and those brave devoted soldiers of both sides were memorialized [justly so] for their bravery and sacrifice.

These monuments, etc. represented the thoughts and beliefs of a nation at war with itself. They don't need modernized editorials to make some folks feel good about themselves. It wasn't about you.

Every Civil War monument North and South can be destroyed and replaced with slavery themed memorials. That still won't erase or even change the disparate racial views of our great country. Nor will it replace the feelings that Americans of those days had about the hundreds of thousands of boys who made the ultimate sacrifice for beliefs they held; not the beliefs modern day Americans think they should have held.
 

Georgia

Sergeant
That's what has got me! I never, ever thought it would or could move at the speed it has.
I think everything about today is happening quickly. We’ve turned into a society which is like Veruca Salt- they want it and they want it now.
There is no time given to explain, think and create options

I remember to joys of receiving a letter from a boyfriend who lived out of state. You couldn’t pick up the phone whenever because long distance was expensive. So, you waited until after 5 or 7 on certain days if you were expecting a call to possibly be made. There was something about the wait that made the letter of hearing the voice all the better.

Now, life is instantaneous. Everyone expects everything to happen instantly. Sadly, I am having to come to understand from all these posts that there is no time left for discussion. So, sadly your example of having to take photographs to be able to have a reminder is so true and so sad.
 

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