NF An idea born out of frustration...

Non-Fiction

Rusk County Avengers

Captain
Muster Stunt Master Stones River / Franklin 2022
Joined
Apr 8, 2018
Location
Coffeeville, TX
20180304_195112.jpg

(Me in my admittingly not correct Union uniform and overweight self, fooling around the saloon on the set of No Man's Land 2019)

I like movies, and a year and half ago I was invited to work on one. My role was as one of the prop masters, and as the weapons coordinator, with an offer to be credited as a historical consultant that I declined. I thoroughly enjoyed working on that budget western, even if more than once I had to suppress the urge to bash my head into a brick wall over some "details" of the movie because I'm so discriminating on such things. Heck after it got released several months back I got reacquainted with that feeling when I finally saw it, and somehow someway literally all gunfight scenes were cut except for the very first one, and I am confident that was the main reason behind the terrible reviews of it. Which is too bad as it had such potential story wise, still a decent good watch, though I am a bit biased.

After that I've been involved with several other budget films, and many fellow reenactors of the campaigner variant I've invited to come help, but they refused outright and because farberism abounded. Where they were stuck up, and judgmental I gave it a chance because I saw opportunity, and am looked down on by some for it. As things have progressed I was urged to take some screenwriting classes and am happy to say I'm working on a few, (not CW) and can't wait till I'm done with the first two I'm writing to see what happens. Normally I wouldn't discuss all this, but seeing where one CW movie thread went, ( https://civilwartalk.com/threads/ive-run-out-of-civil-war-movies-to-watch.162484/page-5#post-2129427 ), combined with seeing reviews of that first movie I worked on, and the realization that a distributor bought that independent film and released it, not to mention the new budget CW movie about Sherman in as the back cover says "1962 March to the Sea" an intriguing idea occurred to me.

Why not do as others have done, get together with new cherished friends in that business and write, maybe direct or co-direct an independent CW movie myself!

I'm often accused by some of being overly competitive, but I feel they simply mistake me being critical of EVERYTHING I see wrong, whether it be a movie on the TV, CW uniforms, and history, or just everything I see going wrong in everyday life, (I may have spent too much time around my father who WAS overly competitive over everything). This is just an idea I've had, and I'm curious about what folks here on CWT will think of this latest crazy idea from a person prone to crazy ideas.

As for a synopsis of the idea I've been putting together in my head, I want to set it in a CW surrounding that I've come to love studying, NW Arkansas after Prairie Grove during the often unheard of guerilla war that happened there, with main character on both sides related to one another with showing not only the bushwhacking, but hopefully smaller battles like Fayetteville or Devil's Backbone. Personal bias and love for that region is one reason, availability of reenactors, and budget money in the future if this goes forward being another, after all no independent film can try to make something about say the Battle of Chickamauga, and have satisfactory results. One aspect of this crazy idea is I want it to be on the level of films such as Wicked Spring in historical accuracy on uniforms, cloths, etc. partly because I despise historical inaccuracy in such regards because there is literally no excuse for it in this day and age, and partly because a good director/producer friend of mine said it can't be done. Also there's the personal matter of myself being very discriminating in such things.

But anyway, I know this is a long post, but let me hear y'alls thoughts!
 
Well there are several obstacles to be overcome besides budget, scheduling, filming locations, and small props. The main thing that makes me scratch my head is Union issued arms. The main US unit in the area, weren't Yanks, but "Mountain Feds" of the 1st Arkansas Cavalry US.

They were issued Starr Carbines, and Pettengill revolvers. With enough money, I think four, maybe five Starr Carbines would be needed for close camera shot, everyone in the background that the camera won't focus on their guns could use Sharps Carbines as from a distance and not focused they wouldn't be noticeable. As for the sidearms, yeah even using one Pettengill would be a no go due to their rarity and pricing, so history will probably have to be bent in that aspect. But one thing as writer and so on I would never bend on, NO BRASS FRAME REVOLVERS!!!!! Many a good CW movie and western is ruined to me and I'm sure many others by the use, and overuse of those d*** things. Outside of Spiller & Burr's and Griswolds they should never be shown onscreen and even with those two be extremely rare or not shown at all.

One gun I have thought would be a good tongue and cheek joke to throw in would be a Richmond rifle-musket among the Arkansas bushwhackers. Many a discriminating critic like myself will scream "Those weren't used anywhere outside of Virginia!" but they might end up being wrong. I know of one Richmond that was supposedly attributed to a Missouri cavalryman, but after the Battle of Prairie Grove one Northern newspaper reported the Confederates better armed than the Union troops with a slew of Enfields, and one gun examined marked "Richmond VA." and "CS". Its open to debate whether Richmond rifle-muskets made it out to Arkansas, but there is one first hand account, and I've tracked four Tredegar M1862 Mountain Rifles that were in Arkansas and used in the Prairie Grove Campaign.

I got to mess with some members of the audience if this happens.
 
I don't think there's anything wrong with making a couple small compromises to tell a good story. There's only a handful of folks out there that would nitpick 100% as long as everything was period correct and the history correct. but that's just me, I'm not overly critical, I enjoyed 60s CW movies using trapdoors as long as it was a good story.
 
I don't think there's anything wrong with making a couple small compromises to tell a good story. There's only a handful of folks out there that would nitpick 100% as long as everything was period correct and the history correct. but that's just me, I'm not overly critical, I enjoyed 60s CW movies using trapdoors as long as it was a good story.

I'm not bothered by movies from the sixties having things wrong, and I still love many of those old movies. But back then, they didn't have a strong well known and accessible reenacting company, the using actual muskets was probably problematic due to not having an abundance of folks who knew how to load them properly etc.

In today's day and age, with all the exact reproductions of uniforms, guns, artillery, abundance of reenactors who do their research, yeah there is no excuse for sloppy prop work, sloppy reenactors, and sloppy research. Some things have to be bent, its unavoidable, but we have so much no to throw it all to the wind like in the sixties is inexcusable and lazy to me. Plus a movie that makes an effort in those areas just looks quality if you have a good camera and director of photography.
 
I'm not bothered by movies from the sixties having things wrong, and I still love many of those old movies. But back then, they didn't have a strong well known and accessible reenacting company, the using actual muskets was probably problematic due to not having an abundance of folks who knew how to load them properly etc.

In today's day and age, with all the exact reproductions of uniforms, guns, artillery, abundance of reenactors who do their research, yeah there is no excuse for sloppy prop work, sloppy reenactors, and sloppy research. Some things have to be bent, its unavoidable, but we have so much no to throw it all to the wind like in the sixties is inexcusable and lazy to me. Plus a movie that makes an effort in those areas just looks quality if you have a good camera and director of photography.
I fully agree but was just making the point that if you tell a good story people will enjoy it and you obviously have a tremendous passion for you subject matter. If you have good reenactors and everything is period correct I wouldn't sweat it if not everyone had Star carbines or Pettingill revolvers. So again I say get to writing! Go for it!
 
Also the "type" of characters I've thought of so far for this hypothetical movie (no names, just backgrounds):

Main Characters
1. The "oldest brother" ex-Confederate conscript who had no loyalty to the CSA and was originally secretly loyal to the Union, deserted the Confederate Army to go home to the family farm after Prairie Grove and due to a tragic accident turns full Rebel bushwhacker when Union troops came through and re-appropriated all the family's land for a "Post-Colony" and handled a situation very badly.

2. The "loyal cousin" serving as a non-com in a company of the Union 1st Arkansas Cavalry who was there when the accident drove the "oldest brother" to the edge and is the real leader of the his company as he knows the land, the people, and the Yankee Lt. placed over him isn't the most qualified, (an overdone trope, but I've had some ideas with this character I really like).

3. The "younger brother" was never in either army, was against the war period, but due to the tragedy that sent his brother over the edge, he has taken up bushwhacking with his older brother, but not a vengeful.

Secondary Characters
1. A Midwestern Northern Lieutenant serving in the 1st Arkansas (most enlisted men were Arkansan, officers Northern), I've had a lot of ideas of things to do with this character.
2. A father to the brothers
3. A sister to the brothers who gets disabled.
4. I want to include one or two of the historical officers of the 1st Arkansas
5. Maybe a small part for Confederate Brigadier General William Cabell
6. IF I show Confederate troops passing through the area for Price's Missouri Raid in late 1864, (I plan on starting the movie around early 1863), a cameo of General Sterling Price, and or General Jo Shelby. Its just an if with many things to line out.

I've already had a slew of ideas to go with on the story, but there are still some areas I'm still brainstorming on. The bit about the characters is not all of them, and it seem like a familiar storyline from what I put down, but lets just say the "devil's in the details". I have no intention of it being a Outlaw Josey Wales, or Ride with the Devil rip off, and there are a LOT of details of my thinking I'm not sharing as of yet.
 
Good luck and this sounds like a cool idea, but there seem to be so many awful low budget Civil War movies coming out lately... no offense but I hope this doesn't become another one.

I think one of the biggest mistakes independent historical films make is trying to do things way outside their budget. A sprawling epic with a half dozen main characters that covers two years of war and multiple battles is extremely hard to pull off even in a movie with a budget of tens of millions and often/usually fails, e.g. Gods and Generals. My advice from your story outline is I think you should really work on condensing it. If you want it to be about brothers, keep it at only two instead of three to focus the story. Cut out everything extraneous. I'd also recommend narrowing the story down to a relatively small timeframe. That will help make it less unfocused, confusing and expensive. I also think if this is going to be about guerrilla warfare in Arkansas then that gives you the perfect excuse to not have any large battles since I assume most of the fighting was small-scale. If you need a battle, make it at night or use lots of smoke. It's better to not show the center of the action (which many soldiers didn't clearly see anyway) than show an underwhelmingly small obvious reenactment.

The next biggest thing I think independent movies often do badly is they just have horrible stories and screenwriting. Like that movie Wicked Spring as you've said started out pretty well with a very decent looking battle scene (that they probably spent 95% of their $500,000 budget on) but then just became utterly ridiculous and farcical. The other independent Civil War movies I've seen lately are just beyond bad and could hardly be improved no matter how big their budget was. Screenwriting costs no money. If you're going to dedicate all the time and money on making a movie, at least have a decent and logical story. The importance of good actors also shouldn't be underrated.

The only independent Civil War movie I've ever seen that I thought was good is The Wilderness by @Zack. It's only 15 minutes long but for me managed to create the feel of a real battle despite not showing the battle, by using good acting and makeup and sound effects and the decision to shoot at night.

The only other independent historical film I've seen that I liked was Van Diemen's Land (2009) about convicts escaping from a British penal colony in the 1820s which I think succeeds by having a focused story filmed on location and with good acting. It had a budget of $260,000.
 
Start with the story. You must have a compelling story to tell - something that transcends history buffs and equipment nerds and speaks to timeless issues. Cull through Ambrose Bierce's material. He writes uncompromisingly about the war, and often his plots involve a small cast. His material is mostly set in the Western Theater, and the exact location isn't named, so you could borrow from him safely. And he's public domain. :smile:
Next consider characters. They have to be able to act and they must have chemistry with each other. Don't expect sets and props to carry the movie for you. I remember when the campaigner wing of the hobby said of "Gods and Generals" "We've just made the most authentic Civil War movie everrrrrrrrrrr!" And then it turned out being dull as watching paint dry - and they turned on each other complaining about the inaccuracies. Setting and properties support the plot and characters, but won't replace them or cover up their inadequacies.
 
Having some pretty sound advice coming around. As for the general idea, yeah I'm an equipment nerd, but to me the thing that utterly kills all budget movies is the acting. Budget films can seldom afford top quality actors, but I have found part of that, is the director. Not everyone can direct, and not everyone can act, but if you have a director who knows what good acting looks like, it can balance out some.

As for this idea I'm peddling, I'd like to get one, maybe two battle scenes, from smaller battles, but I have no intention of them being the big awesome part and the rest no good, like Wicked Spring. Most fight scenes would be basically bushwhacks, but with a normal battle scene I wouldn't expect them to last more than five minutes, if that long.

As for characteristics, when it comes to CW I don't want a normal "good guy vs. bad guy" dynamic, but rather one showing both sides having some and some bad, I guess what I'd aim for is a film that whether the watcher is pro-Northern or pro-Southern both can enjoy, if that makes sense. Its a risky plank to walk, but I grow tired of films that paint one side a saint and the other a demon on the CW, because your ultimately alienating one part of the audience that watches CW movies or westerns.

Start with the story. You must have a compelling story to tell - something that transcends history buffs and equipment nerds and speaks to timeless issues. Cull through Ambrose Bierce's material. He writes uncompromisingly about the war, and often his plots involve a small cast. His material is mostly set in the Western Theater, and the exact location isn't named, so you could borrow from him safely. And he's public domain. :smile:
Next consider characters. They have to be able to act and they must have chemistry with each other. Don't expect sets and props to carry the movie for you. I remember when the campaigner wing of the hobby said of "Gods and Generals" "We've just made the most authentic Civil War movie everrrrrrrrrrr!" And then it turned out being dull as watching paint dry - and they turned on each other complaining about the inaccuracies. Setting and properties support the plot and characters, but won't replace them or cover up their inadequacies.

If this comes about I got to say you've got wise words, but for me it isn't about creating the most authentic movie ever but rather a matter of there being no excuse for shortcuts nowadays with what we have available uniform, prop, and gun wise. Of course for me that also blends over to reenacting as too many reenactors come out looking like **** with the cheapest stuff imaginable and in the case of one well known group, come wanting to be Doc Holliday at the OK Corral in the movie Tombstone instead of an actual CW soldier. If this idea goes forward, the story and the characters themselves will be priority, with setting and everything else next, otherwise it'd never work.
 
Okay good news I guess, I have started writing this not any dialog, but mainly laying it out with opening, introduction to the characters, and so forth. So far I've got maybe the first 30 to 45 minutes laid out, with a depiction of the April 1863 Battle of Fayetteville right at the beginning, (its a small forgotten, interesting affair and enables there to be a battle depiction is realistic in being doable), with most scenes afterwards showing life during the war for the citizen population, before getting to the dramatic change that kicks off the bushwhacker action.

Nothing is set in stone, I've just been brainstorming on paper, and I like what's going on with it though many things may change and so forth. I don't plan to set anything in stone until after I get a lot more research done on the goings on in the area so everything in this little fiction lines up with the history.

My thinking for the depiction of the Battle of Fayetteville will require filming at a location that looks like an Arkansas town, (Old Washington State Park would be great to film at for depicting Fayetteville, who knows a scene or two actually set there towards the end could be nice as it was the Confederate State Capitol after the Fall of Little Rock), but I plan on the battle scene to last no more than 7 or 8 minutes. Just a short awesome battle scene that gets its job in the movie done, and pays a worthy homage to a relatively forgotten battle, something I believe more than enough good researched impression reenactors could be gathered. Past that I don't think there will be any other Confederate Army troops to show up on screen outside of a scene with Sterling Price's troops moving out for Price's great raid into Missouri, (who knows I might find a way to put Pap Price, General Fagan and Jo Shelby on screen), but past that most CW soldiers showing up will be almost exclusively Union Cavalry, with everyone else civilian, bushwhackers, and so forth.

I've already run the idea by a very close friend who probably did more to get me interest me in the CW when I was a kid than anyone else, and previous collaborator on film sets, and his EXTENSIVE, (several buildings worth), collection of period wagons, carriages, and other everyday household, and town items to use if this indie film happens, and that is a go! So props may already be handled making this easier, and the likelihood of this looking like a first class big-budget film in those areas looking great.

A LOT of other things have to happen before this does, even if I had a script done a month or two from now, but who knows a year or two this could get filmed.
 
It sounds great. Having Confederate and Unionist ancestors from East TN., I have always wanted to see a movie about that time and place. Not much shown about those Unionist during the War. They had that movie about Newt Knight but I am not exactly a big fan of the man.
 
Commit your screenplay to paper. Don't be afraid to shape your story. For instance, if you start with a big exciting beginning, where can you go from there? For most authors, only down. Structure your plot: where do you want development? Where do you want the main crisis? Also, ask yourself the hard questions: how do I want my characters to change and develop over the course of he story? No development leads to a flat story line. Do not be afraid to edit ruthlessly. Some of your best ideas may sound great in your head, and not translate to film, no matter how hard you try. Don't save them. Either throw them out or put them aside for another project. This is hard. I call it "sacrificing your children."
Also, remember that your medium is film: Show me, don't tell me. Avoid scenes where characters just talk to each other, or monologue about what's going on and how they're processing it. It's a visual medium - show it. Telling not showing is what leads to those dull stretches that kill dramatic tension. It's Gandalf telling Frodo about the Ring in "Fellowship of the Ring." (A great chapter in the book, but a long dull fireside chat in the movie.) Or Katniss remembering when she met Peta in the "Hunger Games." (In the novel, that scene is placed near the end of the book, at a highly dramatic point. Drags the narrative through the mud, literally.) Don't tell me. Show me.
 
Commit your screenplay to paper. Don't be afraid to shape your story. For instance, if you start with a big exciting beginning, where can you go from there? For most authors, only down. Structure your plot: where do you want development? Where do you want the main crisis? Also, ask yourself the hard questions: how do I want my characters to change and develop over the course of he story? No development leads to a flat story line. Do not be afraid to edit ruthlessly. Some of your best ideas may sound great in your head, and not translate to film, no matter how hard you try. Don't save them. Either throw them out or put them aside for another project. This is hard. I call it "sacrificing your children."
Also, remember that your medium is film: Show me, don't tell me. Avoid scenes where characters just talk to each other, or monologue about what's going on and how they're processing it. It's a visual medium - show it. Telling not showing is what leads to those dull stretches that kill dramatic tension. It's Gandalf telling Frodo about the Ring in "Fellowship of the Ring." (A great chapter in the book, but a long dull fireside chat in the movie.) Or Katniss remembering when she met Peta in the "Hunger Games." (In the novel, that scene is placed near the end of the book, at a highly dramatic point. Drags the narrative through the mud, literally.) Don't tell me. Show me.

I spent most of yesterday committing it to paper! I agree on all counts. As for the showing the 1863 Battle of Fayetteville, I've put it down in a way to try and get the audience interested, but not torpedo everything afterwards, and I've put down some things to show the audience rather than just through dialog. As far as editing it was moving along, liked where it was going, then doing some reading and found I had history wrong in one regard, and it turned into a long edit of the whole thing and I like what's there even better as some concerns about the story were fixed without trying to, (I love it when that happens).

I wouldn't call the beginning big and exciting, I'd say its just about right. To me at least.
 
It sounds great. Having Confederate and Unionist ancestors from East TN., I have always wanted to see a movie about that time and place. Not much shown about those Unionist during the War. They had that movie about Newt Knight but I am not exactly a big fan of the man.

This won't be Tennessee, but NW Arkansas. I'm personally at a loss for a good movie set in East Tennessee, but if it were West Tennessee I'd love to see a movie about "That Demon called Hurst"! A movie about General Forrest after the war to show his transformation would also be awesome. With some flashbacks to the war of course.
 
Researching this subject, I'm curious does anyone have any recommendations for reading covering the Guerrilla War in NW Arkansas from September 1863 to sometime in late 1864?

I've come across some books to go on the shopping list, but I'd like to know if anyone here has any special recommendations by chance.
 
Or Katniss remembering when she met Peta in the "Hunger Games." (In the novel, that scene is placed near the end of the book, at a highly dramatic point. Drags the narrative through the mud, literally.)
I loved, loved, loved, The Hunger Games! You have caused me to want to go back and revisit, especially this part of the story.

I did see the movies before I read the trilogy, and what I did notice was there were what I would call 'superfluous' characters in the novels that didn't appear in the movies. These characters 'irritated' me as they seemed to serve absolutely no purpose whatsoever.

They felt like 'props' to the story, as though they were dropped in there to fulfill a 'quota' of characters, but really lent nothing to the development of the story at all. My preference is for every character to serve a purpose.

Off to revisit The Hunger Games, but good luck with your efforts and inspiration @Rusk County Avengers
 
UPDATE
Not that this thread has been a barn burner on activity or interest...

Been writing, and re-writing this project, and its been moving along, I had writer's block for a day or two, but its moving well. I've mostly given up thinking everything out till after I've re-read it, and have left most of the thinking to my pen if that makes sense, (I like what it writes). If some of my distractions would leave me alone, I could have this thing's first draft done in a week or two.

As for what's happening in the story, I'm keeping that to myself for now. But with other things, such as the set-pieces in the film, I might share some of that.

1. During a battle scene show an artillery piece go into action and an enemy shell hit its ammo caisson just as the gun is ready to fire.
I've been activily working towards learning the craft of building cannons, long-rifles and muskets from an experienced builder, and when bouncing ideas off him this idea came up, we plan to build a caisson, wheels and all and blow it up if this film gets filmed. Luckily there's plenty of old wood we can refurbish just for this express purpose, my concern is to blow it all up in a way without damaging the wheels so they can be re-used and it still look awesome on camera. A tricky endeavor, but one I'd love to see, and not seen in CW movies very often.

2. Lots of burning houses
This is pretty much a must, not only to fit into the story, but also history. In the part of Arkansas I'm writing this, arson by both sides was extremely common, so much so that after the War brick making became the principle industry in the region for while because so many folks developed a fear of their homes burning to the ground, because they had been during the War by opposing sides, sometimes more than once. So a lot of arson is a necessity in this film, not just because the plot requires it, but so to does history.

3. A powder flask explosion while its being worn
This idea I'm proud of, it may bend history and physics a little, but I think viewers would love the touch. One of the characters will have a Hall Rifle, now with M1814, M1817, and M1841 "Mississippi" Rifles were issued with a black rifleman's pouch, with the carry strap being buff, and split in two for the split pieces hooking to a powder horn, or brass flask of several variants during and long before the Mexican War, It wasn't a Civil War thing, but its written in, in a way to make sense historically speaking, and it's also open to debate such an item would have issued with a Hall Rifle. Also the explosion of a bullet hitting the flask wouldn't be enough to kill or seriously harm the wearer in the way it was worn, but in the story with a bullet hitting it, it's not going to. Its just something to spruce up a fight somewhat and furthers the plot. But given the nature of brass, I'm personally not sure a bullet hitting a brass flask would actually explode, so seeing how I have a dozen or so old worn out flasks from my gun salesman days, I might sacrifice one mounted on a dummy in the near future for not only this movie, (it would also be a good way to see what happens to the body in such an event and then translate it to screen), but also to satisfy my own curiosity, who knows I might even record the test and put the video here.

4. Lots of wagons...
Not exactly a set-piece, much less one folks would look for, but given all the guarding supply trains in the region I've written in such a scene showing a US Army supply train. There are several ways to get enough Union Army supply wagons handy, more than you'd think, so no big worry there. As for everyday wagons on a farm or in town, yeah I got that covered very easily, I know people and one of them is holding one carriage for me whenever he decides to sell it, (circa 1867). Having access to them, yeah I'm going use that resource as much as I can and it makes sense.

And much more!

I'm not giving everything away, plot or set-pieces, I'm just jimmying up interest in the thread and giving a meaningful update. Stay tuned! Its a longer term project, but I have faith this can happen!
 
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