"All the heroes weren't white"

Andersonh1

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Found this great little sketch in a SCV magazine cover-dated May 1923. Take a look at the lower left and the old black vet with the caption "All the heroes weren't white."

I'm not sure entirely what the context is or who Gilbert Sutton was. It appears as though he was just sketching and captioning what he saw at the reunion. These little drawings of old vets are all through this magazine. The glowing language fits in with what we see in newspapers of this era when talking about black Confederate veterans. I almost posted it in the post-war newspaper thread, but it doesn't really belong there.

https://archive.org/details/starsbars1219unse/mode/2up?q=Sons+of+Confederate+Veterans+1925
9wcGcKC.jpg
 
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unionblue

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The illustration depicts a fanciful scene relating to the 1913 Gettysburg reunion commemorating the Battle of Gettysburg's 50th anniversary. The June 29–July 4 gathering of 53,407 veterans included 8,750 Confederates of which some were black veterans. The Gettysburg event was the largest ever Civil War veteran reunion.

And yet offers no background or source for the cartoon.

It's a drawing of a supposed black man, whether a slave, cook, drummer, or whatever, who knows?
 

Andersonh1

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The sketch does not tell us much, that's certainly true, and I would not claim otherwise. It is a glimpse at one man's characterization of a non-white veteran, printed in a SCV publication from May 1923, that was shared with me and which I wanted to pass along precisely because it is perhaps not what we might expect to see in terms of attitude towards the black vets. I've seen them referred to as "veterans" and "negro/black Confederates" and even "soldiers", but this is the first time I've seen them called "heroes".
 
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Viper21

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A cartoon of a black man wearing a Southern Cross of Honor, seems a bit less relevant and verifiable to "All The Heroes Weren't White."
Less relevant..? I ain't trackin.

The artist who drew this, intentionally put the Southern Cross of Honor on the black man, & added the quote, "All The Heroes Weren't White". Neither is by accident. Those two points are connected, & on purpose. They are both relevant to each other.
 

unionblue

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Less relevant..? I ain't trackin.

The artist who drew this, intentionally put the Southern Cross of Honor on the black man, & added the quote, "All The Heroes Weren't White". Neither is by accident. Those two points are connected, & on purpose. They are both relevant to each other.

I have seen similar drawn pictures of UFOs and their occupants.

Are they both relevant to each other?
 

Viper21

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I have seen similar drawn pictures of UFOs and their occupants.

Are they both relevant to each other?
Relevant to each other.....sure.

However, there's a major difference between what I've suggested in relation to the drawing in the OP, vs. what you are suggesting.

I can show an actual picture of black man wearing a Southern Cross of Honor. Can you show an actual picture of a UFO & it's occupants..?

c58afbaa8cdb2825a400fedc415231f7--southern-crosses.jpg
 

C.W. Roden

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Relevant to each other.....sure.

However, there's a major difference between what I've suggested in relation to the drawing in the OP, vs. what you are suggesting.

I can show an actual picture of black man wearing a Southern Cross of Honor. Can you show an actual picture of a UFO & it's occupants..?

View attachment 365658
Bravo sir!
 

C.W. Roden

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John Gilbert Sutton was the owner of Gilbert Sutton, Inc. a New York art advertising service.
View attachment 364073Source page 11

View attachment 364074
FindAGrave
I visited St. Davids Cemetery in Cheraw, SC recently. Lots of historical graves there including the oldest Confederate monument in existence and the mass grave of British soldiers of the 71st Highland Regiment. The church itself served as a hospital for both sides in the American Revolutionary War and the War Between The States. I saw Mr. Sutton's grave while I was there.
 

unionblue

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Relevant to each other.....sure.

However, there's a major difference between what I've suggested in relation to the drawing in the OP, vs. what you are suggesting.

I can show an actual picture of black man wearing a Southern Cross of Honor. Can you show an actual picture of a UFO & it's occupants..?

View attachment 365658

@Viper21 ,

Now here, I must admit, is an example that requires serious attention vice a cartoon.

Now, all I require is evidence of WHY this gentleman was presented with a medal that was not created until after the Civil War.

As for that other photo, as soon as I see one, I'll post it for you. :wink:

Sincerely,
Unionblue
 

C.W. Roden

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From the Ken Burns epic on the American Civil War here is footage of the 1913 Gettysburg Reunion. Check out the row of what looks to be black veterans at the 1 minute 25 second mark :

Those were a few of the Black Confederate Veterans who attended the reunion.
I remember watching this footage and hearing the story of the reenactment of Picketts Charge and how the Union Vets flung themselves over the wall to meet the Confederate Vets on the field. I would have loved to have see that, and been there to witness these former foes show respect as fellow American veterans. I only wish that some of their descendants today were as willing to put the past behind them.
 
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A cartoon of a black man wearing a Southern Cross of Honor, seems a bit less relevant and verifiable to "All The Heroes Weren't White."
Now, all I require is evidence of WHY this gentleman was presented with a medal that was not created until after the Civil War.

UB, I know you certainly did not mean it to be understood that way, but why do you emphazise that a black man would NOT be awarded a Southern Cross of Honor? I think the drawing in the OP just says that we should not forget that black men on both sides were substantial to the war effort, in what role ever. Just yesterday I watched a Youtube video about the Confederate retreat from the Gettysburg battlefield. Without the countless black drivers of ambulances, a lot of wounded would have fallen into the hands of the enemy and there were enough attacks during the retreat. Steering an unarmed ambulance though an attack sure is not something for the faint at heart. So why should not a Southern Cross of Honor be awarded to these true heroes who saved lots of Confederate wounded from imprisonment and worse?
As for the creation of the medal only after the war: a couple weeks ago I read that due to the lack of metal during the last stage of the war, recipients of Confederate "medals" only got theirs after the war. Until then they got an entry in the Confederate "Roll of Honor". Wait, I still have that in my bookmarks:
"Whereas the Union Army awarded and gave soldiers' medals during the war, the Confederate States of America did not, lacking metal to mint awards; so many Confederate soldiers were not honored until 1977 when the Confederate Medal of Honor was initiated as an equivalent to the Union's award."
http://www.americaslegacylinks.com/medals_of_honor.html
The first Southern Cross of Honor was issued in 1900 (source), so that fits with the appearance of the photo.
That it is hard to find a record stating that a black man had been awarded a Southern Cross of Honor might be related to the dreadful fires that destroyed a lot of records. But why not give the black gentleman in the photo the benefit of the doubt? Right on the contrary, doubting that he rightfully wears that cross means to take it away from him instead of honoring his gallantry. Just a thought.
 

rebracer

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Its comforting to know that some posters on this Site personally have knowledge of every single individual that fought for the Confederacy and have first hand knowledge that there were no black individuals who served willingly in any form for the CS military.

It is also good to know that the first thought that must enter our head when considering any black man having any conection to the Confederacy is "a slave, cook, drummer, or whatever".
 

unionblue

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UB, I know you certainly did not mean it to be understood that way, but why do you emphazise that a black man would NOT be awarded a Southern Cross of Honor? I think the drawing in the OP just says that we should not forget that black men on both sides were substantial to the war effort, in what role ever. Just yesterday I watched a Youtube video about the Confederate retreat from the Gettysburg battlefield. Without the countless black drivers of ambulances, a lot of wounded would have fallen into the hands of the enemy and there were enough attacks during the retreat. Steering an unarmed ambulance though an attack sure is not something for the faint at heart. So why should not a Southern Cross of Honor be awarded to these true heroes who saved lots of Confederate wounded from imprisonment and worse?
As for the creation of the medal only after the war: a couple weeks ago I read that due to the lack of metal during the last stage of the war, recipients of Confederate "medals" only got theirs after the war. Until then they got an entry in the Confederate "Roll of Honor". Wait, I still have that in my bookmarks:
"Whereas the Union Army awarded and gave soldiers' medals during the war, the Confederate States of America did not, lacking metal to mint awards; so many Confederate soldiers were not honored until 1977 when the Confederate Medal of Honor was initiated as an equivalent to the Union's award."
http://www.americaslegacylinks.com/medals_of_honor.html
The first Southern Cross of Honor was issued in 1900 (source), so that fits with the appearance of the photo.
That it is hard to find a record stating that a black man had been awarded a Southern Cross of Honor might be related to the dreadful fires that destroyed a lot of records. But why not give the black gentleman in the photo the benefit of the doubt? Right on the contrary, doubting that he rightfully wears that cross means to take it away from him instead of honoring his gallantry. Just a thought.

@FarawayFriend ,

Because slaves were not awarded medals or awards during the Civil War, no matter how brave or faithful they were to their Confederate masters during that war. I don't doubt their courage and their service at the time, but in my own view that's no excuse for keeping them slaves and one can view those actions as conditional on them being forced to be in a place and time of danger without their consent or agreement.

As for the Confederate Medal of Honor, a medal awarded in 1977, this is a modern contrivince meant for the people of today to pat themselves on the back for recognizing people who are long dead and gone.

I will not recognize the idea that people forced into danger with no choice one way or the other, were ever given an award when it mattered. Even when the Confederacy was going to finally permit black slaves to serve as soldiers, they were not even going to get the award they truly deserved, their freedom.

So forgive my reluctance at getting excited at the idea that slave gets a piece of metal for courage and bravery, and yet does not receive his freedom for such, nor was there ever any intent to give it.

Sincerely,
Unionblue
 
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The closest I've come to finding a black Confederate (and I freely admit that the breadth of my knowledge on the subject pales in comparison to most of yours) is Moses Dallas. Technically a slave, he lived away from his owner, who seems to gave allowed him to serve as his own contractor and to keep the money he earned as a river boat pilot.

The Confederate Navy paid him $100 a month as a pilot near Savannah. On the night of June 3, 1864, he piloted a boarding party of Confederates to the USS Water Witch, which was then captured fairly easily.

Dallas apparently boarded the Water Witch with them. Water Witch paymaster Luther Billings wrote, "[A] grinning negro face appeared at the port opening. I remember how ghastly his face grew when his gaze met the leveled pistol I held only a few inches away from it. Again the deadly flash and Moses… also passed away.”

Technically, he was a citizen employee of the Confederate Navy, but nevertheless, he was a black man who died attacking a Union ship.
 
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