Restricted All Recent Confederate Heritage & Battle Flag Events...

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All the decisions to remove confederate iconography are being made by local people. People outside the local areas are the ones trying to prevent it by passing state laws.
Whats your source for "being made by local people"? Most cases I've read Its being made councils or commissions and not being put to a vote on a ballot to see what actual majority of local people want.

A partisan commission or council does not always actually represent its populace...........We had a good example of that here a few years ago with a local health board..........After repeatedly saying they would not take unilateral action on a ordinance.......they did........the next election they were voted out, and the ordinance suspended..........That they DID pass it, DID NOT represent the will of the people of the county at all however.............

Would also question why a City Council should be deciding what is a monument to county or state sacrifices.........would think the County or the State should be deciding, if that is what the monument represents...............Nor should any form of government accept donated monuments, if they didn't/don't expect to display them in good faith.
 
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JonnyReb_In_MI

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Here's one problem I have with the argument that only locals should have a say...
I am the direct descendant of Confederate Veterans who fought for Virginia, Kentucky & North Carolina, but I live (born & raised) in the suburbs of Detroit, MI. While I may not live in those states or localities, I do visit many of them, and I find it very moving when I (for instance) visit North Carolina and see a monument dedicated to honor the men who fought for the Confederacy out of that state, including my ancestor.

My direct ancestor who fought for Virginia died in a poorhouse in Kentucky 20 years after the war, and his gravesite was destroyed in the 1970s (a road crew put a road right over the cemetery), but I can go to a little county-seat in what is now considered "West Virginia" and see a monument to all of the men who fought for the Confederacy from that area, including my ancestor. It's basically the only place of remembrance that I can visit for him.

I cannot, for the the life of me, understand what right modern day locals have to tear down memorials built to honor those who offered all that they had, right down to their very lives, in order to protect and defend that area from an invading army 150 years ago???

... but if they do...
I'm sure glad that the Virginia Flaggers exist to make sure that the hate & intolerance of an ignorant & reckless generation does not remove all public displays of honor to those brave men who fought for the Confederacy from the Commonwealth of Virginia, and I hope that such organizations of equal strength & determination spring up in all the former Confederate states.
 

Tin cup

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As long as Confederate monuments are threatened there will be more and more Battle Flags rising along the major highways of the South. God bless the Virginia Flaggers and all others who share their dedication.
So, it's done out of SPITE?
WHERE is the honor in THAT? Even I have more respect than to do that to the flag!

Kevin Dally
 

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Whats your source for "being made by local people"? Most cases I've read Its being made councils or commissions and not being put to a vote on a ballot to see what actual majority of local people want.

Oh, please. The city councils and their commissions are made up of local people. The mayor and the town council are elected by local people. A commission has no power to do anything but make a recommendation. It's the elected officials who make the decisions to move or rename. They are voted in by the people, and the people can vote them out if they disapprove. The people can recall the elected officials if those officials are doing something of which the people disapprove.

A partisan commission or council does not always actually represent its populace

A town council ALWAYS actually represents its populace because they are voted in by the populace. This is basic government information.

Would also question why a City Council should be deciding what is a monument to county or state sacrifices.........would think the County or the State should be deciding, if that is what the monument represents...............

Because that monument is located in that city. If a state wants a monument, they can put it on state government ground. The local government should have the right to determine who or what will be honored in that locality.

The desire to trample over local desires shows the moral bankruptcy of confederate heritage.
 

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I cannot, for the the life of me, understand what right modern day locals have to tear down memorials built to honor those who offered all that they had, right down to their very lives, in order to protect and defend that area from an invading army 150 years ago???

Because they have the right to govern and determine who their locality will honor. As an outsider, your viewpoint is irrelevant to that.
 
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Noted you provide no source of actual local opinion, certainly a controversial measure shouldn't be put to a ballot measure to see what the actual consensus is

Noted you are wrong....that they are voted in to represent the people, however does NOT mean they "ALWAYS" will, and is why many are voted out............

And noted you apparently are afraid the people who the monuments were actually intended to represent probably don't share your view, so they shouldn't have a say........And also goes to why did the city accept a monument to service of X statemen or the County of X?........if they didn't intend to honor it in good faith............For example lets say a monument was from the DAR.......they probally would have originally gave it to the state or county if they had knew the city wasn't going to honor it...........However when they donated it the city WAS representing that they would honor it
 
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cash

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Noted you provide no source of actual local opinion, certainly a controversial measure shouldn't be put to a ballot measure to see what the actual consensus is

Do you really need a source to show that a mayor and a city council are local people and elected by local people? Do you need a source to show you elected officials can be recalled?

I would think that's common knowledge.


Noted you are wrong....they are voted in to represent the people, however that does NOT mean they "ALWAYS" will, and is why many are voted out............

They do represent the people. The question for reelection is how well they represent the people. If they do not do a good job in representing the people they get voted out or recalled. In the absence of them being recalled or voted out of office, they are representing what the people want in the way the people want to be represented.


And noted you apparently are afraid the people who the monuments were actually intended to represent probably don't share your view, so they shouldn't have a say

That shows a misunderstanding of what I'm saying.

........And also goes to why did the city accept a monument to service of X statemen or the County of X?........if they didn't intend to honor it in good faith............For example lets say a monument was from the DAR.......they probally would have originally gave it to the state or county if they had knew the city wasn't going to honor it...........However when they donated it the city WAS representing that they would honor it

The city has the right to change its mind. People of today are not held hostage to the prejudices and opinions of people of the past. In fact, it's a healthy thing for people to periodically review who they are honoring and determine if they still consider those people worthy of being honored. That should be their right.
 
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Do you really need a source to show that a mayor and a city council are local people and elected by local people? Do you need a source to show you elected officials can be recalled?

I would think that's common knowledge.

The votes of a mayor and 7 councilmen would show the will of 8 people, that is common knowledge................Politicians are elected for and on a multitude of different issues, It certainly in no way reflects the opinions of the populace on any one specific issue..........do you honestly believe if one polled the population on Gun control, CSA Monuments and Infrastructure, that on every issue the council make up is going to accurately reflect the populaces? Because it wont.............

Polls do somewhat with margins of error, and an actual election vote on a ballot measure does........

And the polls tend to not support your claims in either support for monument removal nationally or in the south, and as to the Confederate flag, USA Today noted nationally it is split......however in the south it isn't, and is viewed by majority there as symbol of heritage. Even the Huffington Post which is hardly a bastion of conservatism concedes that on monuments. https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/confederate-statues-removal-polls_us_599de056e4b05710aa59841c

If your going to keep making this claim that people don't want the will of local city/towns done.......would think you should be able to show a vote or poll on the specific issue that has a larger sample size then of 4-8 people in the municipality to reflect this overwhelming will you seem to imply. Which is all I asked for.........
 
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mo
I suggest getting a good book about American Government.
wow had a post deleted for modern politics.............

Personally I would have thought when the thread went from volunteer groups honoring heritage to urban political groups voting to remove historical monuments that had been passed down by generations to remove heritage, would have been the modern politics line.........much less claiming some "modern local majority" is being denied by modern state politics..........

I would have thought when one suggested a specific city "Durham" to take mob illegal action because their will isn't somehow being reflected.......that would have been modern politics. Not that asking what a current count of the 251,800 people of Durham is on a specific issue, that repeatedly hasn't been provided, somehow is..............
 
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CSA Today

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So, it's done out of SPITE?
WHERE is the honor in THAT? Even I have more respect than to do that to the flag!

Kevin Dally

Spite? Real Southerners prefer the think of it as standing up to the always offended. Let these wingnuts get away with taking down monuments and then flags and they'll just turn to something else.
 

CSA Today

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Yes, the local opinions of people in cities and towns who want to remove monuments don't count in state capitals.

Statewide referenda would be a better gauge of opinion, much of the anti-Confederate angst and handwringing seems to come from outsiders flocking to Southern urban areas seeking to impose the biases they brought from their failed cities and towns to their new homes.
 

CSA Today

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The truth is the exact opposite of that claim. No outsiders are doing anything. Confederate monuments and flags are being removed by locals. Streets and schools are being renamed by locals. In fact, it's the outsiders in state capitals who are trying to overrule local control.

Uh, so you are saying it's the Yankees moving into the state that are trying to protect Confederate monuments?
 
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Spite? Real Southerners prefer the think of it as standing up to the always offended. Let these wingnuts get away with taking down monuments and then flags and they'll just turn to something else.
Agreed.......not sure how one takes a group increasing the public display of a symbol that polls have shown is a regional source of heritage and pride is somehow spiteful.........Yet then one group is trying to remove another groups public display of their past and heritage its somehow not.......when polls have shown both nationally and by state the people don't want the symbols removed..............the claims of urban areas is interesting, however have yet to see any accurate reflction of the people on that specific issue.....and barring it being voting on by the voting public, we probably wont...........However its generally been my experience when a group doesn't want to put an issue to ballot measure..........its because they fear they don't actually have the votes.........
 
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