All Present And Accounted For. The Army Of Northern Virginia's Finest Performance?

Which battle was the ANV most impressive Victory? Fredericksburg or Chancellorsville?


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War Horse

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I've read that Chancellorsville was Robert E. Lee's and the Army of Northern Virginia crowning victory? I question this. Let's take a good look at Fredericksburg. The performance of the entire Army of Northern Virginia never shined so bright. All commanders were present, all performed splendidly. Stuart, Jackson, Longstreet and Alexander worked as a combined cohesive machine that all but destroyed the AOP. I wonder if any of you feel the same and if not why? I would love to learn your opinions. What makes Chancellorsville a more impressive victory than Fredericksburg? Which battle was really Lee's crowning achievement.
 
I voted Chancellorsville. Nothing about Fredericksburg said success for the Union by the time the fighting started. It was just a question of how many widows would be left alone.

At Chancellorsville, the Union army was in great shape going into the battle. Lee Jackson, et al, had a lot to deal with and they did so as well as could be possible.
 
I voted Chancellorsville. Nothing about Fredericksburg said success for the Union by the time the fighting started. It was just a question of how many widows would be left alone.

At Chancellorsville, the Union army was in great shape going into the battle. Lee Jackson, et al, had a lot to deal with and they did so as well as could be possible.
Good point Pat. So you are saying fighting at Fredericksburg was a bad idea from the beginning?
 
I voted Chancellorsville. Nothing about Fredericksburg said success for the Union by the time the fighting started. It was just a question of how many widows would be left alone.

At Chancellorsville, the Union army was in great shape going into the battle. Lee Jackson, et al, had a lot to deal with and they did so as well as could be possible.

I vote Chancellorsville as well. Fredericksburg only required Lee to mount a competent defense. Chancellorsville also required a skillful offense.
 
I vote Chancellorsville as well. Fredericksburg only required Lee to mount a competent defense. Chancellorsville also required a skillful offense.
Good point and I get it. The reason I ask the question is Lee formulated a battle plain that was finally executed to the fullest by all components of the army at Fredericksburg. All parties did their jobs and did them well. Jackson pulled off a masterpiece of tactical maneuvering at Chancellorsville. That victory could in large part be attributed to him alone. Fredericksburg was a true team effort. IMHO
 
I voted for Chancellorsville as well. Lee had to use all his ingenuity and the abilities of his subordinates to escape Hooker's attempt to ensnare his army. The key to Fredericksburg was getting in position before Burnside could take the heights above the city. Once that was accomplished there was little for his command to do but wait.

If I were looking for other battles to stack up against Chancellorsville I'd consider the 2nd Manassas.
 
I voted for Chancellorsville as well. Lee had to use all his ingenuity and the abilities of his subordinates to escape Hooker's attempt to ensnare his army. The key to Fredericksburg was getting in position before Burnside could take the heights above the city. Once that was accomplished there was little for his command to do but wait.

If I were looking for other battles to stack up against Chancellorsville I'd consider the 2nd Manassas.
I agree to some extent, but at 2nd Bull Run, the ANV was up against one of the most disfunctional Union forces in the East. The poor quality of the opposition diminishes the ANV achievement.
 
Good point Pat. So you are saying fighting at Fredericksburg was a bad idea from the beginning?

I wouldn't say it was bad from the beginning, and was in fact well planned. But when the pontoons bridges were so late that it gave time for Lee to dig in the plan should have been changed. Certainly Dec 15 was bad from the get go.
 
I voted for Chancellorsville as well. Lee had to use all his ingenuity and the abilities of his subordinates to escape Hooker's attempt to ensnare his army. The key to Fredericksburg was getting in position before Burnside could take the heights above the city. Once that was accomplished there was little for his command to do but wait.

If I were looking for other battles to stack up against Chancellorsville I'd consider the 2nd Manassas.
Okay, that's the second time I've heard that, why 2nd Manassas?
 
I agree to some extent, but at 2nd Bull Run, the ANV was up against one of the most disfunctional Union forces in the East. The poor quality of the opposition diminishes the ANV achievement.
I agree. The same could be said vis-a-vis Burnside and Hooker, though I do rate Hooker above Burnside and Pope. It would also be of interest to compare versus the Wilderness or Spotsylvania, both of which could be considered Confederate victories in that Lee was able to blunt Grant's plans.
 
Okay, that's the second time I've heard that, why 2nd Manassas?
Many of the reasons you cited for Fredericksburg - the team was all present and put forth a great effort. Unlike Fredericksburg where the battle was pretty circumscribed by the terrain which both prevented Burnside from succeeding in his attacks, but also prevented Lee from countering, 2nd Manassas was wide open. Pope had the opportunity to change the course of events, but couldn't see his way clear to do so. Lee took the opportunity to follow up his victory, though, in the long run it didn't work as he hoped.
 
I voted Chancellorsville. Nothing about Fredericksburg said success for the Union by the time the fighting started. It was just a question of how many widows would be left alone.

At Chancellorsville, the Union army was in great shape going into the battle. Lee Jackson, et al, had a lot to deal with and they did so as well as could be possible.

By this you mean incontrovertible Confederate victory? Come on, now. There's no getting around this one.

Union defeat at Chancellorsville is what caused Lincoln himself to moan, "Oh, what will the country think?"

I agree, the 2nd Battle of Bull Run may have been the high point, but dismissal of Chancellorsville is ridiculous.

(Edited to add: "Confederate" victory)
 
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Many of the reasons you cited for Fredericksburg - the team was all present and put forth a great effort. Unlike Fredericksburg where the battle was pretty circumscribed by the terrain which both prevented Burnside from succeeding in his attacks, but also prevented Lee from countering, 2nd Manassas was wide open. Pope had the opportunity to change the course of events, but couldn't see his way clear to do so. Lee took the opportunity to follow up his victory, though, in the long run it didn't work as he hoped.
Agreed 2nd Manasses was a great tactical victory for Lee. Fredericksburg was a plan that came together and resulted in catastrophe for the AOP. They simply should not have fought. Everything was against them, yet they did. As a defensive/offensive strategy Fredericksburg was a masterpiece. I do see your point on 2nd Manasses.
 
By this you mean incontrovertible victory? Come on, now. There's no getting around this one.

Union defeat at Chancellorsville is what caused Lincoln himself to moan, "Oh, what will the country think?"

I agree, the 2nd Battle of Bull Run may have been the high point, but dismissal of Chancellorsville is ridiculous.
I am not dismissing the importance of the victory. I am simply pointing out that the entire ANV functioned harmoniously at Fredericksburg. Textbook you could say. I know of no other battle where all corps commanders and artillery were as effective and worked in unison as they performed at Fredericksburg. It's like when a coach puts together his game plan and the other teams walks right into it and refuses to adjust. Lee had to be proud of his entire team.
 
By this you mean incontrovertible Confederate victory? Come on, now. There's no getting around this one.

Union defeat at Chancellorsville is what caused Lincoln himself to moan, "Oh, what will the country think?"

I agree, the 2nd Battle of Bull Run may have been the high point, but dismissal of Chancellorsville is ridiculous.

(Edited to add: "Confederate" victory)
Umm, I said I thought Chancellorsville was the most impressive victory. Where do you see me dismissing it?
 
I am not dismissing the importance of the victory. I am simply pointing out that the entire ANV functioned harmoniously at Fredericksburg. Textbook you could say. I know of no other battle where all corps commanders and artillery were as effective and worked in unison as they performed at Fredericksburg. It's like when a coach puts together his game plan and the other teams walks right into it and refuses to adjust. Lee had to be proud of his entire team.

I realize this, War Horse. I wasn't responding to you, but to the poster who suggested the Confederates "did as well as they could."

Yes, they did.
 
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