Advice for new collectors

rob63

First Sergeant
Joined
Jul 13, 2012
Location
PA, but still a Hoosier
It may be a tad bit presumptuous of me to attempt this, I certainly risk saying something stupid and there are certainly many others that post on these boards that are likely more qualified, but I was really struck by a recent thread where someone proudly posted the rifle-musket they had recently purchased only to be disappointed to learn that it had been cut-down and turned into a shotgun post-war. I hope that I can pass along something useful that may prevent someone out there from making a similar mistake. Ideally, others will join in and add things to the thread that I can learn from and I can also avoid making a future mistake. At the very least I hope the photos are useful.


Information
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You can never own too many books or do too much research. The only books that I have regrets about are the ones that I have failed to purchase. At a bare minimum you should purchase and read Flayderman's guide. It is the bible of antique gun collecting and is loaded with sound advice from a legend in gun collecting. If you are serious about collecting Civil War arms then you also need to purchase specialized books that give detailed information about the weapons.

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As an example; look at the barrel bands on these two rifle-muskets. It is important to know what is correct on the particular type of gun you are buying. One of these is known as the Model 1861, the other is known as the Model 1861 Special. You would not want to purchase a Model 1861 that has Model 1861 Special barrel bands on it or vice-verse! Likewise; sights, locks, stocks, etc. are normally different on various models. This is where the books come in handy. You won't possibly remember everything there is to know, but even things you have forgotten will lurk in there somewhere and will make you think twice before making a mistake.

I have been trying to think of what are the best pieces of advice that I could give a beginner. These are my opinions, others may disagree with some of them. This leads me to the first piece of advice; you will need to give some thought to what is important to you. Some people don't mind if a gun has a lot of wear and tear, others only want pristine new looking weapons. As you become a more advanced collector your taste will probably change but the more you can figure it out up-front then the quicker you will begin to amass a collection that you enjoy. In my case; I have realized that I don't mind at all if a gun has a bunch of dents and dings and shows evidence of having actually been used, but I really dislike guns that have been cleaned too much. Others will feel differently. You should also decide what type of collection you want to have. Some people specialize in all of the various versions of a single weapon, others generalize a little more and collect within a certain category, I am one of the many people that just want one of everything.

The second big step is that you should attend as many shows, museums, auctions, etc. that you can and just simply look at original weapons. If you are at a show ask questions, most of the people at them are friendly and helpful.

Once you are ready to buy something, have patience. The best deals come to those that wait and that still have funds available when the opportunity presents itself. Never pay retail prices for items that are commonly available. Conversely, never pass on a rare item because you think it is over-priced. Knowing the difference between rare and common items comes from research.
 
Muskets, Rifle-Muskets, and Rifles
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I am only going to show these types of weapons, but many of the things I discuss also apply to pistols and carbines. A musket is shown on top, a rifle-musket in the middle, and a rifle on bottom. The musket is slightly longer than the rifle-musket, (42 inch barrel compared to 40 inch barrel.) and is smooth-bore versus rifled. Notice that the 3 barrel bands on the musket and rifle-musket are equally spaced apart on each gun. If the barrel band nearest the muzzle (called the top band) is closer to the middle band than what the lower band is, then that is an indicator that the gun has been shortened. This simple eyeball test can save you money! Also notice that the 2 barrel bands on the rifle are spaced differently than they are on the rifle-musket. If someone is offering you a 2-band rifle but the bands are spaced the same distance as they are on a rifle-musket then it is actually a cut-down rifle-musket, not an original rifle.
 
Quality
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Original Civil War weapons were made on quality machinery and display a high degree of fit and finish. Notice that the wood and metal fit together precisely on an original weapon. If you see any kind of a sloppy fit on a weapon then something is probably wrong. Following the war there were a number of surplus weapons and many were converted to shotguns or modified in some other way. The quality of such conversions varied. Knowing what the weapons originally looked like can help you spot such conversions.
 
Condition
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Notice that the wood around the lock on the top gun in this photo has nice sharp edges while the lower gun has rounded edges. If you see rounded edges on the wood then that is an indicator of wear and/or cleaning. It is certainly OK if you purchase a gun that shows wear or has been cleaned, but you need to know how to spot it because it effects value. Also, note how the clean-out screw of the lower gun has been buggered. This was caused by using a modern screw driver. Purchase a good set of hollow-ground screwdrivers before taking anything apart. Try to avoid taking things apart if you can. When I first started collecting I took apart every gun I bought, now I almost never take anything apart. Leaving them alone prevents you from screwing them up!
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Compare the clarity of the markings in the preceding photos. One of the guns has been cleaned so that it has the original bright finish, but in the process the markings were dulled. Again, you may be fine with a gun that has been cleaned, but you don't want to pay the same price as you would for an uncleaned gun. I have been to many auctions where someone paid a huge price for a gun they thought was in great shape because it was bright and shiny but it was actually heavily cleaned with dull markings.
 
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Rust that has been removed can often leave behind pitted metal. This also impacts what a gun is worth. The more pitting there is, the less the gun is worth. Pitting is usually worse near the breech due to the mercury in the percussion caps.

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Patina is a nice collector term for the discoloration of wood and metal due to age. The ramrod in this photo is a modern reproduction that has been artificially aged. Notice how it is a uniform color, but the real patina on the gun has a lot of variation in it. Also notice how the metal at the muzzle does not have any patina due to a bayonet being on the gun for many, many years. The metal nearest the wood also does not have much patina, this is likely due to accumulated dust and dirt that protected the metal but that has since been cleaned away leaving the bright metal exposed.
 
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Cartouches are stamps of the initials of the inspector that accepted the arm. They are normally found on guns that were federal property. They are often missing from guns that were purchased on a state contract. The first photo shows what clear cartouches look like. The second gun is an example of a gun that never had a cartouche. Notice that the stock still has sharp edges. The final gun is an example of a gun that has so much wear that it is no longer possible to see the cartouches. Collectors love to see cartouches!
 
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Any repairs or alterations that were done during the period of use exhibit a high degree of fit and finish. Look at this period wood repair. The stock was squarely cut and a new piece of wood was precisely fitted. If you are looking at a gun that has an obvious low quality repair to it, don't let the seller convince you that it is a period repair.

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This is the barrel of a flintlock musket that was altered to percussion using a patent breech. This means that the rear of the barrel was cut off and then a new rear section was screwed into place. Notice that it is virtually impossible to detect the line between the original barrel and the new breech. The alteration shows the type of quality they were capable of during the period. If you are looking at a gun with alterations that appear to have been done in a garage, then they probably were!
 
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Speaking of flintlock alterations. The variety is astonishing. Here are just 3 examples showing the typical types of alterations. The top musket is a drum conversion, in which the new nipple was installed in a drum that was screwed into the barrel in the same location as the original touch hole. The middle musket is the previously discussed patent breech conversion, and the lower musket is a cone conversion in which the original touch hole was welded up and a nipple was screwed into the top of the barrel.
 
Imports.
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There were an amazing number of weapons imported for the Civil War. Although they were often disparaged by the soldiers, note that they exhibit quality comparable to the American made arms. Any weapon adopted by a European nation would have been a quality made arm. They may show a lot of wear, but they should have good fit and finish.
 
Miscellaneous
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Ramrods should have threads on the end. If it doesn't, then it was probably shortened.

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Civil War guns often have initials scratched into them. These may be from the soldier that it was issued to or possibly a later owner, there is no way of really knowing. Note that you may also see neatly stamped initials in a stock. These are the initials of an inspector.

I hope all of this is helpful without being too preachy!
 
I have been collecting and restoring antique guns for 40 years. This is one of the best articles I have ever seen. Send it to Man at Arms, (Gun Collector Magazine) Woonsocket RI and I'll bet they print it. It's better than some of the articles they print. do MORE......and thanks...Ken
 
The "Key" to becoming a successful collector is KNOWLEDGE. For whatever reason, some of the "gun traders" you run into at gun shows make used car salesmen look like models of veracity and virtue. The general rule is: "Every gun comes with a story," and most of these "stories" are at least 1000% fiction!

Buy the gun and not the story!
 
Rob63, an excellent primer on basic arms collecting!

I especially like your photo of the percussion alterations, namely the top arm, the Nippes contract M-1840 with the drum conversion. For those who may not recognize it in its current state, it is the only drum conversion used by the Federal government. And, in its original converted configuration it was the first Maynard Tape Altered musket adopted for use by the U.S. military.

The current configuration is a secondary alteration which has had the "Tape Feed Box", and the original unique percussion hammer removed and replaced with what appears to be a M-1861 hammer. That the screw mounting hole in the lock plate seems to be neatly plugged lends some credence to this secondary alteration being a military alteration. It is known that the Confederacy captured a number of these M-1840 Maynard Tape altered muskets when they took the Baton Rouge Arsenal in 1861. It is also known that they then re-altered them by removing the "Tape Feed Box" and pluging the screw hole in the lock plate. Although, they left the original unique Maynard Tape hammer in place. The fact that this example now has a M-1861, or '61 type, hammer only makes it that much more interesting. This is a very difficult arm to add to a collection in any condition or configuration. Thank you for showing it to us!

Again, a very well done presentation all the way around....Four Stars!

J.
 
Thanks to all for the kind comments! It makes me glad I did it, hopefully a young collector will stumble upon it.

The Nippes Model 1840 conversion is an example of me actually following my own advice. (It happens occasionally.) It was a little overpriced for a percussion conversion, but I had just read all about it and recognized it for what it is. I decided to pony up for it because of the rarity and have never regretted it.

Here is a photo of a different gun that I came across on a dealer's web site once. It has that same hammer.
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Rob63,

As a long time collector, you've really piqued my interest on this particular arm! Since you are the very fortunate owner of one of these rare arms, and have discovered yet another example, can you tell us anything about the hammer?
Thanks,
J.
 
A great thread.
For anyone who wants to begin collecting anything, learn as much as you can before buying. I find that it is also a good idea to know who you are buying from.
 
Rob63,

As a long time collector, you've really piqued my interest on this particular arm! Since you are the very fortunate owner of one of these rare arms, and have discovered yet another example, can you tell us anything about the hammer?
Thanks,
J.
I measured it with calipers and compared it to my M1855 Rifle and M1861 Rifle-Musket. It measures the same within a few 1oooths in every direction I tried. I took some better photos to share. FWIW, Moller, in his book, claims that this is the conversion done in New Orleans. Unfortunately, he does not provide any sources so I don't know what he based that conclusion on. I would obviously be interested in any information you can share about it.

Just a note for anybody else that is interested, I have read in several different sources that the Nippes Maynard conversion is known to have been taken along with Admiral Perry on his voyage to Japan since it was the latest development in firearms at the time.
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