Abe would have died within a year of being shot by Boothe

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gary

Captain
Joined
Feb 20, 2005
Today the author of The Physical Lincoln, Dr. John Sotos, was supposed to speak before our Civil War Round Table. Illustrations were crucial to his talk as he intended to show medical evidence that Lincoln. Back in 1996, some medical professionals determined that Lincoln had Marfan syndrome. Marfan can either affect the bone or the connective tissue. There are thirty characteristics that may manifest itself in Marfan. Dr. Sotos does not agree. Instead he asserts that Lincoln had MEN2B (multiple endocrine neoplasia type 2B). It's a cancer.

Dr. Sotos couldn't give his talk and gave us the five minute version without the evidence or details. I was lucky enough to be seated next to him and we got along quite well because of his destroyer pin on his tie. His father was a DE sailor in WW II. Luckily they were out hunting first German subs and then Japanese subs and were never on picket duty looking out for kamikazes. Anyhow, I asked him how long Lincoln would have lived if he wasn't shot by Boothe. Without even pausing, he told me that Lincoln would have been dead within a year! His war weariness wasn't stress from the war but degeneration because of MEN2B.

He has a short paperback on the subject. I bought the bigger book which has the paperback material plus all his notes. His research methodology was similar to my own (which is why I bought it). He pored over every bibliography on Abe and every original source to find that one comment that someone made about Lincoln's physical characteristic or appearance. For instance, "Was a fast eater, though not a very hearty one," or "Lincoln was a vegetable - His skin performed what other organs did for the [sic] He was sluggish - apathetic," or "He was never handsome, indeed, but he grew more and more cadaverous and ungainly month by month." There are hundreds if not thousands of like statements or observations that have been collected and categorized by Dr. Sotos. To we non-medicos, these obscure statements are easily overlooked and may not mean much, but taken cumulatively and in conjunction with examination of photographs, the death masks, casts of his hands and drawings, they provide a wealth of information that Dr. Sotos interprets to provide a fresh perspective on Lincoln. If you learn nothing else from the bigger book, it may be a way of organizing your research for analysis. Read the little paperback if you don't have the and want to get to the heart of his discussion.

We're planning for Dr. Sotos to return with a working projector at some future date.
 

M E Wolf

Colonel
Retired Moderator
Joined
Feb 9, 2008
Location
Virginia
Dear Gary;

Sounds very interesting however, I have trouble in taking observations and assumptions as to account for Lincoln's health; especially when things like tape worms, sanitary conditions were awful, other forms of illness and or diseases might have been there; as well as treatments then were as dangerous as the diseases/illnesses themselves, e.g. arsenic, Iodine, sulfer, etc.

I think if there was a modern autopsy or taking DNA samples, skin samples, etc.; there might be more comfort for me. They did this on President Jackson. Certainly, they could do such for Lincoln.

Just some thoughts.

Respectfully submitted for consideration,
M. E. Wolf
 

Bonny Blue Flag

1st Lieutenant
Joined
Jun 21, 2008
Location
Irving, Texas
Detroit Free Press / www.freep.com / 7.24.06

"The largest tissue bank in the world, the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology (AFIP),..... was started in 1862 by President Abraham Lincoln to help doctors learn more about wounds and diseases affecting soldiers on the battlefield. It has since grown to include 80 million samples."

Putting aside issues of ethics, privacy and where to obtain consent, it would not surprise me if there is just enough of non-degraded DNA of Lincoln to test. But what other doors would this open?

We could dig up a piece of Teddy Roosevelt to study obesity, knock off a bit of John Adams to study hair loss...

--BBF
 
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whitworth

2nd Lieutenant
Joined
Jun 18, 2005
What difference does it matter

Lincoln died from the assassination. No defense team ever made a case that the victim, would have died soon after the murder.

The one question is what Lincoln knew of his health in mid-1864, and whether he should have better considered who would be the next vice president and future president.

Of course, Lincoln made some poor personnel picks, while President.
 

gary

Captain
Joined
Feb 20, 2005
What difference? None. It just illustrates that what did happen, Lincoln gone and Andrew Johnson as president, would have have happened anyway. All speculation of what would have happened had Lincoln not been assassinated is actually futile because the cards were against him living for long.
 
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bama46

Captain
Dear Gary;

Sounds very interesting however, I have trouble in taking observations and assumptions as to account for Lincoln's health; especially when things like tape worms, sanitary conditions were awful, other forms of illness and or diseases might have been there; as well as treatments then were as dangerous as the diseases/illnesses themselves, e.g. arsenic, Iodine, sulfer, etc.

I think if there was a modern autopsy or taking DNA samples, skin samples, etc.; there might be more comfort for me. They did this on President Jackson. Certainly, they could do such for Lincoln.

Just some thoughts.

Respectfully submitted for consideration,
M. E. Wolf
Mr Wolfe...
They would have to get thru onehellofalot of concrete just to get to the coffin... imagine the public uproar if such an attempt were made... I live in Springfield, Il and can assure you this would NEVER happen..

Ed
 

Taureau

Cadet
Joined
Jun 11, 2012
What difference does it matter

Lincoln died from the assassination. No defense team ever made a case that the victim, would have died soon after the murder.

The one question is what Lincoln knew of his health in mid-1864, and whether he should have better considered who would be the next vice president and future president.

Of course, Lincoln made some poor personnel picks, while President.
I'm glad of Lincoln's vice president, he did what Lincoln was supposed to do...end reconstruction much earlier! And yes, he was the first president to be impeached or at least attempted to. Lincoln died of lead poison, and if it wouldn't have happened when it did, someone else would have got him.
 
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Will Carry

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The Tar Heel State.
If UGLY was fatal, Mr. Lincoln would have been dead long before he got to Washington. OK that was a bad joke. I find medicine of the Civil War to be fascinating. The soldier's health in their day to day activities interests me a great deal. Thank you for posting this!
 

gary

Captain
Joined
Feb 20, 2005
Dear Gary;

Sounds very interesting however, I have trouble in taking observations and assumptions as to account for Lincoln's health; especially when things like tape worms, sanitary conditions were awful, other forms of illness and or diseases might have been there; as well as treatments then were as dangerous as the diseases/illnesses themselves, e.g. arsenic, Iodine, sulfer, etc.

I think if there was a modern autopsy or taking DNA samples, skin samples, etc.; there might be more comfort for me. They did this on President Jackson. Certainly, they could do such for Lincoln.

Just some thoughts.

Respectfully submitted for consideration,
M. E. Wolf
Concur that with DNA it would be most positive. However, Abe isn't going to be exhumed merely for medical science. The pillowcase with his DNA is available, but the owner submitted the proposal to five notable historians and they rejected the proposal to test it. There is the matter of the collar and Dr. Sotos is aware of the collar, but hasn't asked the owner.
I do not believe the bullet that hit Lincoln was made from lead, so no lead poisoning.
Are you suggesting that Abe Lincoln, Vampire Killer is a vampire?
 
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huskerblitz

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Jun 8, 2013
Location
Nebraska
Concur that with DNA it would be most positive. However, Abe isn't going to be exhumed merely for medical science. The pillowcase with his DNA is available, but the owner submitted the proposal to five notable historians and they rejected the proposal to test it. There is the matter of the collar and Dr. Sotos is aware of the collar, but hasn't asked the owner.
This has already been done several years ago and nothing came in positive for Marfan. Basically those who think he had Marfan's is a pipe dream. There is no evidence he had it.

 

gary

Captain
Joined
Feb 20, 2005
This has already been done several years ago and nothing came in positive for Marfan. Basically those who think he had Marfan's is a pipe dream. There is no evidence he had it.

Wasn't aware of it. Did they test for MEN TYPE IIB? Sotos' argument is that it wasn't Marfan but Multiple Endocrine Neoplast Type II B.
 
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huskerblitz

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Location
Nebraska
Wasn't aware of it. Did they test for MEN TYPE IIB? Sotos' argument is that it wasn't Marfan but Multiple Endocrine Neoplast Type II B.
I don't really remember. I still have the show recorded on my TIVO but I haven't watched it for quite a while. Basically what I do remember is they could not find anything in the DNA samples that would indicate any type of disease that would have lead to his death other than Booth's bullet.
 

gary

Captain
Joined
Feb 20, 2005
If you don't test for it, you won't find it. BTW, I shared one account with Dr. Sotos where a soldier shook Abe's hand and said it was cold and clammy. He replied that it was one of the symptoms.
 

huskerblitz

Captain
Joined
Jun 8, 2013
Location
Nebraska
If you don't test for it, you won't find it. BTW, I shared one account with Dr. Sotos where a soldier shook Abe's hand and said it was cold and clammy. He replied that it was one of the symptoms.
Honestly, when you go looking for symptoms you generally are going to find them one way of the other. That's why self-diagnosing on the internet is frowned upon.

To be honest...no, I do not think he had Marfan's or any other mystery disease. I'm also not a fan of historical diagnosing long dead people.
 
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gary

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Feb 20, 2005
Honestly, when you go looking for symptoms you generally are going to find them one way of the other. That's why self-diagnosing on the internet is frowned upon.

To be honest...no, I do not think he had Marfan's or any other mystery disease. I'm also not a fan of historical diagnosing long dead people.
I'm not doing the diagnosis. I read books but that doesn't make me a medical doctor or even a surgeon re-enactor. Dr. Sotos on the other hand is a doctor.
 
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