A statue for Rosecrans was A formal debate propostion for Grant.

Depends on the time of day... I have a function I'm attending from 12:30 to about 2:30, and I'm on the road after 6; but if you happen to coincide with one of my free-zones, I'd be happy to meet you (and show you the Rosecrans birthsite if you haven't been there already).
I doubt I'll get to Sunbury before 4 on Sunday. I have seen the birthplace memorial, the new elementary school named for him, and a few other sites. My guide was Polly Horn of the Big Walnut Historical Society, ask for her when you visit. I would only ask you to keep an open mind about General Rosecrans. I'm only wanting to add a new statue to the "Gallery of Union Heroes" I'm not for taking anyone's statue down. I will be speaking in Columbus in 2016 so perhaps we can meet then. Ohio- and the (mid)west in general- should be proud -very proud- of the great number men it produced who helped win the war.
 
Tullahoma is very underappreciated as far as campaigns in the civil war. Hard to get the deserved recognition when it ended the same week as Gettysburg and Vicksburg, plus there was no signature battle of the campaign. It took awhile for Rosie to implement those actions, much to HQ's chagrin, but once rolling Bragg was continuously forced back until Middle TN, was firmly in the Union fold
A leading historian of the war (and Grant) declined to even mention Tullahoma on his website posting about Vicksburg and Gettysburg. Michael Bradley's book on Tullahoma concludes the campaign was at least as important as the two more famous -and bloody- battles https://books.google.com/books?id=R...ved=0CBwQ6AEwAGoVChMI897byoT8yAIVg6w-Ch1b6Q2I
 
Another seldom-recognized Rosecrans contribution was his vigorous advocacy for repeating rifles. In one nine month period he wrote 19 letters to the secretary of war and other officials encouraging their adoption. Colonel Wilder would likely never have received the Spencers that made him famous at Hoover's Gap and Chickamauga w/o Rosecrans*

*Philip Leigh Lee's Lost Dispatch and Other Civil War Controversies p. 21

Some other accomplishments in the late winter and spring of 1863 include the construction of Fortress Rosecrans, the largest earthen fort of the war; innovations in map making utilizing photography; creation of a pioneer brigade. One can read more about Rosecrans' actions and innovations in this academic paper. https://books.google.com/books?id=l...ved=0CCwQ6AEwAmoVChMIjYPR54b8yAIVAkg-Ch08QwKN
It can be downloaded from this address www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA404422

In many histories Rosecrans is labeled as being idle in the period between Stones River and Tullahoma. Nothing could be further from the truth.
 
I doubt I'll get to Sunbury before 4 on Sunday. I have seen the birthplace memorial, the new elementary school named for him, and a few other sites. My guide was Polly Horn of the Big Walnut Historical Society, ask for her when you visit. I would only ask you to keep an open mind about General Rosecrans. I'm only wanting to add a new statue to the "Gallery of Union Heroes" I'm not for taking anyone's statue down. I will be speaking in Columbus in 2016 so perhaps we can meet then. Ohio- and the (mid)west in general- should be proud -very proud- of the great number men it produced who helped win the war.

I think he deserves a statue. Men who did far less have been memorialized. The fact that he didn't win the war single-handed doesn't mean he shouldn't be remembered for his contributions.
 
I like Rosecrans too, but what is the modern constituency for erecting a statue to him? Most Civil War statues seem to have been erected with a combination of public and private funding and I just don't see any legislature appropriating money for this. I live next to the most statued city in America and most are just passed by without thought anyway. Okay, the Statue of Liberty gets noticed, but that is about it.

To fulfill a desire made by the men who fought under him. Also to draw attention to the general public to a man who accomplished much in saving the Union and who believed fervently in emancipation. Statues are often ignored but they are there for people to look at and learn from. Think about the controversy about statues of Confederate figures. I am perplexed that people who are modern day Union sympathizers would object to a statue of one of their own. I can't imagine that happening on the other side.
 
To fulfill a desire made by the men who fought under him.

This might be part of it for me... my great-great grandfather in the 14th OVI was in that army; and the Army of the Cumberland always seems to be lost in the shuffle when people start talking about the great Civil War field armies. :D (Even their opponent, the Confederate Army of Tennessee, seems to get more press...)
 
This might be part of it for me... my great-great grandfather in the 14th OVI was in that army; and the Army of the Cumberland always seems to be lost in the shuffle when people start talking about the great Civil War field armies. :D (Even their opponent, the Confederate Army of Tennessee, seems to get more press...)
Albert Castel once said to me there was no Union army better than the AotC. This was years before he wrote Victors in Blue. I suspect his opinion of them only got better.
 
I have to say I'm disappointed but not surprised at your opposition to a Rosecrans statue. (You can read my reasons why I think he should have a statue in my response to Ned Baldwin.) It seems you are against any possibility of people knowing more about Rosecrans.

How you can say that I've come out in opposition to a statue and that it must be because I oppose people knowing more about Rosecrans puzzles me. I think your speculation about my motives and desires tells us more about you than it does about me. I'll leave it at that.
 
To fulfill a desire made by the men who fought under him. Also to draw attention to the general public to a man who accomplished much in saving the Union and who believed fervently in emancipation. Statues are often ignored but they are there for people to look at and learn from. Think about the controversy about statues of Confederate figures. I am perplexed that people who are modern day Union sympathizers would object to a statue of one of their own. I can't imagine that happening on the other side.
I don't think I ever said I was opposed to a statue. I just asked what constituency would press for it, what politicians or businesses would champion it. The constituency you mentioned, the men he commanded, are all dead.
 
I am perplexed that people who are modern day Union sympathizers would object to a statue of one of their own.
There is a difference between objecting to a statue of Rosecrans and not seeing the need for one.
I dont see the need for it but if someone wants it and can make it happen, I have no objection to it.


It seems you are against any possibility of people knowing more about Rosecrans.
I think this encapsulates the reason why there is such tension between you and others such as me or Horace Porter.

It would be great it everyone had the opportunity to know more about Rosecrans.
What I found is that the more I learned about him the lower my opinion got. So be careful what you wish for.
 
It would be great it everyone had the opportunity to know more about Rosecrans.
What I found is that the more I learned about him the lower my opinion got. So be careful what you wish for.

I tend to agree with you. I didn't have much of an opinion of the man before I started looking at some of his campaigns in the West but the more I read about him, it became very apparent how average he was. Stones River was not very well managed and Rosecrans was fairly lucky to hang on and eventually win, Tullahoma was an excellent campaign, Chickamauga was a disaster and he didn't come out of it looking very good, and there's a lot of controversy about what he was doing in the initial stages of the Chattanooga campaign. He just comes across as a mediocre army commander who probably would have been better off as a corps commander.

R
 
Let's learn more about William S. Rosecrans. Could experts on Rosecrans detail his role in blocking efforts to restore Grant's commission in the army so he could be placed on the retirement list? Why did not Rosecrans object to the same effort being made on his own behalf in 1889? Why would Rosecrans accept for himself what he was willing to deny to a dying Grant?
 
I'd say that, if this guy can have a statue, then there's no firm basis for denying Rosecrans one.

800px-Nathaniel_Prentice_Banks_statue%2C_Waltham%2C_MA_-_2.jpg
 
To be fair, Banks' statue was put up in his hometown and Rosecrans has an equestrian statue in Sunbury, OH.

R

Sounds even, then.

I'm just making the point that not everyone who's commemorated with a statue was a Lee or a Grant. (Heck, there are plenty of people around who'd say that neither Lee nor Grant was a Lee or a Grant...)
 
Sounds even, then.

I'm just making the point that not everyone who's commemorated with a statue was a Lee or a Grant. (Heck, there are plenty of people around who'd say that neither Lee nor Grant was a Lee or a Grant...)
Edward Brush Fowler of the 14th Brooklyn has a statue in Ft. Greene Brooklyn as well. If it had not been erected by his friends, it would not be there. No one today would take on the project of raising money, getting civic approval, etc today. I sometimes take visitors to this handsome statue and interpret it for them. People in the neighborhood sometimes stop to listen because they did not realize its significance.
 
I'd say that, if this guy can have a statue, then there's no firm basis for denying Rosecrans one.

800px-Nathaniel_Prentice_Banks_statue%2C_Waltham%2C_MA_-_2.jpg
Banks, while laughable as a general, had a sizable constituency in his day. He was a leading Know Nothing who made the jump to leadership in the Republican party. Tens of thousands of people who never served with him looked to him as a political leader.
 
To be fair, Banks' statue was put up in his hometown and Rosecrans has an equestrian statue in Sunbury, OH.

R
That statue was originally on the State House grounds in Boston but was removed in 1950 to make way for an expansion project. It was offered to Waltham and the City had it installed in its central square.
 
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