A Primer on Civil War Pocket Watches

I see. Then it is not a minute hand clearance issue. Too bad. That would have been easy to fix. I had better not speculate anymore then. Well, if you decide that you need a watchmaker referral, let me know. I can help.

Could you recommend someone that repairs pocket watches? I have a Hamilton Lever-Set Pocket Watch from the 1890s that needs some work.
 
I have a nice little VeriThin Gruen that runs like a charm, an Elgin in an art deco case that I got for $2 at a garage sale (but fixing it cost $70 -- it was a mess). Last year I picked up an Ottoman watch, silver, with the last emperor's tughra on it -- probably carried by a cabinet official in the last days of the Ottoman empire. I don't have anything from before the turn of the century, but I like to buy old pocket watches to wear around in my day-to-day life, and the watches from the 1920's work pretty well. And my kiddo loves to listen to them ticking.

Dudes, post some pics of your timepieces if you like!

I have a watch I need to sell on eBay -- the watch case says it's 20K gold but the guy who sold it said that the appraisal determined that it was not 20K. I didn't think that those kind of markings could be made in fraud. So that is odd.
 
I have a nice little VeriThin Gruen that runs like a charm, an Elgin in an art deco case that I got for $2 at a garage sale (but fixing it cost $70 -- it was a mess). Last year I picked up an Ottoman watch, silver, with the last emperor's tughra on it -- probably carried by a cabinet official in the last days of the Ottoman empire. I don't have anything from before the turn of the century, but I like to buy old pocket watches to wear around in my day-to-day life, and the watches from the 1920's work pretty well. And my kiddo loves to listen to them ticking.

Dudes, post some pics of your timepieces if you like!

I have a watch I need to sell on eBay -- the watch case says it's 20K gold but the guy who sold it said that the appraisal determined that it was not 20K. I didn't think that those kind of markings could be made in fraud. So that is odd.

I have never once in 30+ years of watch collecting seen a 20 karat gold case. 18 karat and 22 karat, yes, but never 20.
 
Very interesting thread. Thanks so much for posting.

The oldest pocket watch I have was originally my grandfather's. It was made by the Illinois Watch Company. It is in a silver case and has second hand in middle of the face of the clock. All I know is my grandfather was born in 1891. My Dad told me he remembers his Dad always having it. My Dad was born in 1921.

I took it to a jeweler and wanted to have it repaired. He wanted over $100 to have fixed. he said he thought worth about $500. I don't know if he could have been right.

I didn't have it repaired. As my Dad said it had stopped at the exact time my Grandfather passed away and he never reset it again. I guess I just felt maybe it wouldn't be right for me to have it working again.

I keep it in one of those domed cases that has hook you hang it from and that way stays safe and dust free.

If you know anything about the Illinois Watch Company in this time period would appreciate knowing.
Donna, I have on of those glass domed cases for my ggrandfather's watch! Great minds, us. His is post CW, the serial # (Elgin) says is was made in 1888.
 
Glad to help.
Glad to help.
Clint, I need some help with this watch. It is a key wind made by David Magnin, Geneva. The dial measures about 1.25" diameter. Years ago I broke the crystal with a heavy thumb but otherwise it in excellent condition. It is in it's original box from the E. A. Tyler store, Canal St. in NOLA and is engraved "Made by David J Magnin, Geneve, #71114, for E.A. Tyler, New Orleans." I'm pretty sure it belonged to my gg-grandmother as they occasionally bought nice things on visits to the city. Can you date it? Also, where can I have a new crystal installed?

Watch in box, broken crystal, extra key on chain, crystal ring.
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Rosefiend asked folks to post a picture or two of their pocket watches, so here is one of mine, my latest acquisition.

My watch is a Waltham Model 1857, "Appleton, Tracy & Company" Grade, serial number 107,296, manufactured in February of 1864. The movement has 15 jewels and a temperature compensated balance, and it is in its original 18 karat gold case, which was sold by J. R. Reed & Co., a prominent Pittsburgh jeweler of the CW period. The inside of the rear lid is engraved: "Presented to J. T. Copeland, Brig. Gen. Vols, by the Officers of Camp Copeland, 1864."

J. T. Copeland was born in Maine in 1813, studied law at Harvard and clerked for Daniel Webster. In the 1840s, he served in the Maine militia, rising to the rank of colonel. Subsequently he moved to Michigan, where he operated a sawmill for a time near Bay City, later serving on the Michigan State Supreme Court from 1852-7. When the CW broke out, he volunteered for service, and on account of his prior military experience, was commissioned as a Lt. Colonel in the 1st MI Cavalry Regiment. Shortly thereafter, Copeland was promoted to a full colonel and put in command of the 5th MI Cavalry. When his two original regiments were combined with a third regiment and consolidated into the 1st Michigan Cavalry Brigade (the "Wolverines"), Copeland was given a star and placed in brigade command. (Some of the attached pictures of Joseph Copeland likely were taken before his promotion to brigadier. The one of him in a frock coat with two rows of eight buttons in pairs definitely was taken after his promotion to brigadier.) Copeland was one of the first Union general officers to recognize the practical importance of the Spencer repeating carbine ("that damned Yankee rifle you loaded on Sunday and shot all week"), and his brigade was one of the first federal cavalry units to be equipped with it. At the Battle of First Kernstown on March 23, 1862, one of Stonewall Jackson's rare tactical defeats, Copeland's brigade captured two to three hundred confederate prisoners.

The Wolverines passed through Gettysburg on June 29, 1863. Then amidst a larger, well-known shake-up in the federal command structure, it was decided that Copeland, at age 50, was "too old" for field command. He was replaced as commander of the 1st MI Cavalry Brigade by George Custer two days before the Battle of Gettysburg, in which, according to one source, the Wolverines suffered greater losses than any other federal cavalry unit engaged. General Copeland was reassigned to the command of large recruit collection and training camps, first in Annapolis MD, then in Braddock, PA, outside of Pittsburgh. The camp in Braddock Field was subsequently renamed "Camp Copeland" in Gen. Copeland's honor. I pass within sight of Braddock each morning on my way to work. Much of the former camp site is now a cemetery, but there is still a Copeland Street along part of the former boundary of the camp. Apparently, the general was popular with his officers there, who presented him with this gold watch. The watch is in great shape and keeps excellent time. Copeland's last commission was as commandant of the Union camp for confederate POWs at Alton, Illinois.

Copeland settled in Orchard Lake, MI in West Bloomfield Township, near Pontiac after the war, but eventually moved to Orange Park, Florida, where he served as a Justice of the Peace. His home on Orchard Lake, "The Castle," became, sequentially, a resort, a military academy, a Christian seminary, and the nucleus of St. Mary's College and Preparatory School. Gen. Copeland died in 1893, on his 80th birthday.
 

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Clint, I need some help with this watch. It is a key wind made by David Magnin, Geneva. The dial measures about 1.25" diameter. Years ago I broke the crystal with a heavy thumb but otherwise it in excellent condition. It is in it's original box from the E. A. Tyler store, Canal St. in NOLA and is engraved "Made by David J Magnin, Geneve, #71114, for E.A. Tyler, New Orleans." I'm pretty sure it belonged to my gg-grandmother as they occasionally bought nice things on visits to the city. Can you date it? Also, where can I have a new crystal installed?

Watch in box, broken crystal, extra key on chain, crystal ring.
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Gaaked this off a Silver Forum -- http://925-1000.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=29863

E.A. TYLER

39, Camp Street, later, 110, Canal Street, and later, 115, Canal Street, New Orleans

2n9drf4.jpg

An image of the premises at 115, Canal Street from 1873. The firm of E.A. Tyler were thought to have been in business at New Orleans for the period 1838 until 1879.

ajw8xg.jpg

E.A. Tyler - New Orleans - 1853

2rz6q6q.jpg

E.A. Tyler - New Orleans - 1856

sqs5dc.jpg

E.A. Tyler - New Orleans - 1868

2l9nt6v.jpg

E.A. Tyler - New Orleans - 1869

4ji1u.jpg

E.A. Tyler - New Orleans - 1871

Trev.
 
I have never once in 30+ years of watch collecting seen a 20 karat gold case. 18 karat and 22 karat, yes, but never 20.

Shoot, I got dyslexic about the numbers again. When I go home I'll take a look at the case and get the correct number, and try to get a decent picture of it for you. It's a nice watch -- just didn't know that they could misrepresent the gold in a watch case so blatantly like that.

But it would be probably a good idea to take it to a jeweler myself and see what they say.
 
Clint, I need some help with this watch. It is a key wind made by David Magnin, Geneva. The dial measures about 1.25" diameter. Years ago I broke the crystal with a heavy thumb but otherwise it in excellent condition. It is in it's original box from the E. A. Tyler store, Canal St. in NOLA and is engraved "Made by David J Magnin, Geneve, #71114, for E.A. Tyler, New Orleans." I'm pretty sure it belonged to my gg-grandmother as they occasionally bought nice things on visits to the city. Can you date it? Also, where can I have a new crystal installed?

Watch in box, broken crystal, extra key on chain, crystal ring.
View attachment 68446View attachment 68447View attachment 68448View attachment 68449View attachment 68450View attachment 68451

A lovely watch. Hmm, Well. Your grandma's watch looks to be a nice, signed, well-finished bar-style Swiss watch, with probably 15 jewels, a temperature-compensated balance and nickel plates. Nickel finish was coming into style as key winding was going out, so I'm guessing that combination of attributes probably puts your watch somewhere in the 1870 to 1880 period. Does that make sense to you, based on what you know about the watch's provenance?

And yes, I see here from Rosefiend's post that the retailer, E. A. Tyler, was in business through 1879.

The same watch maker I cited earlier in this thread could certainly replace your broken crystal. However, there is someone else I know who is likely quicker and cheaper for something as simple as a crystal replacement. I will need to get his permission first before giving you his name, so please stay tuned.
 
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Hmm, Well. Your grandma's watch looks to be a nice, well-finished bar-style Swiss watch, with probably 15 jewels, a temperature-compensated balance and nickel plates. Nickel finish was coming into style as key winding was going out, so I'm guessing that probably puts your watch somewhere in the 1870 to 1880 period. Does that make sense to you, based on what you know about the watch's provenance?

And yes, I see here from Rosefiend's post that the retailer, E. A. Tyler, was in business through 1879.

The same watch maker I cited earlier in this thread could certainly replace your broken crystal. However, there is someone else I know who is likely quicker and cheaper for something as simple as a crystal replacement. I will need to get his permission first before giving you his name, so please stay tuned.
Thank you. The time period works. Prior to the CW they lived in N. Louisiana but made regular trips to N.O. Immediately afterward they moved to New Orleans and lived there until about 1871 when they moved to Mississippi, still doing business in the city. I was thinking the key wind would date it a bit earlier. The later date probably means it was my g-grandmother's (her daughter), it did come with things from her home, and she would have been in her 20's then.
 
Gaaked this off a Silver Forum -- http://925-1000.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=29863

E.A. TYLER

39, Camp Street, later, 110, Canal Street, and later, 115, Canal Street, New Orleans

2n9drf4.jpg

An image of the premises at 115, Canal Street from 1873. The firm of E.A. Tyler were thought to have been in business at New Orleans for the period 1838 until 1879.

ajw8xg.jpg

E.A. Tyler - New Orleans - 1853

2rz6q6q.jpg

E.A. Tyler - New Orleans - 1856

sqs5dc.jpg

E.A. Tyler - New Orleans - 1868

2l9nt6v.jpg

E.A. Tyler - New Orleans - 1869

4ji1u.jpg

E.A. Tyler - New Orleans - 1871

Trev.
Thank you, this is great. It looks like E. A. Tyler moved to 115 Canal St. (the address on the box) by 1868 according to the advertisements above. This fits with the date Clint gave 1870-80.
 
Thank you. The time period works. Prior to the CW they lived in N. Louisiana but made regular trips to N.O. Immediately afterward they moved to New Orleans and lived there until about 1871 when they moved to Mississippi, still doing business in the city. I was thinking the key wind would date it a bit earlier. The later date probably means it was my g-grandmother's (her daughter), it did come with things from her home, and she would have been in her 20's then.

Well, I gave you a range, and 1871 is in that range, so it could easily have been your gg-grandmother's watch, too. Given how expensive a watch like that would have been (it is considerably better finished than the average Lady's watch of the period), it could well have been the mom's watch, rather than her twentyish year old daughter's.
 
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Hi, I think you meant "Le Locle." That was a major watchmaking center in Switzerland. Unfortunately, Swiss export watches, many of which were unsigned by their makers, are the hardest to say much about, and without seeing pictures, I can say virtually nothing.

Yesterday I was posting from memory; today I have it front of me! I can probably photograph it if you think it's really necessary, but the full inscription on the inner brass cover reads:

( In Old English, showing it was intended for export ) Patent Lever
( In flowing script ) Full Jewelled
( The Maker, also in script ) L. F. Tacot
( In open block letters ) LOCLE

I bought this piece at a gun show many years ago and have had it repaired and/or cleaned several times. It still runs, but generally loses time because the hands slip, so I mainly wear it for show whenever I'm in uniform. From its style I know it's close to period, but would like to pin it down a little closer if possible.

Edit: I'll try to get some photos of it to show if the rain will ever stop and the sun comes back out!
 
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Yesterday I was posting from memory; today I have it front of me! I can probably photograph it if you think it's really necessary, but the full inscription on the inner brass cover reads:

( In Old English, showing it was intended for export ) Patent Lever
( In flowing script ) Full Jewelled
( The Maker, also in script ) L. F. Tacot
( In open block letters ) LOCLE

I bought this piece at a gun show many years ago and have had it repaired and/or cleaned several times. It still runs, but generally loses time because the hands slip, so I mainly wear it for show whenever I'm in uniform. From its style I know it's close to period, but would like to pin it down a little closer if possible.

Edit: I'll try to get some photos of it to show if the rain will ever stop and the sun comes back out!

Hi,

"Patent lever" just means the movement has a lever escapement, as virtually all Swiss watches, other than a few very high grade pivoted detent chronometers, did. The reference to a "patent" in this instance is meaningless hype. "Full Jeweled" means 15 jewels (including 7 for the escapement, and 4 pairs for the wheel train.) The reference to "Locle" we have already discussed. As for "L. F. Tacot," I think you actually meant "L. F. Jacot." The Jacot family was a well known group of watch makers, and there was an L. F. Jacot.

One source I just found a reference to (a text by "Loomes") lists a "Louis Jacot" of Locle as being active in the "third quarter of the nineteenth century," which would be 1851 to 1875. (Of course, the CW is right smack dab in the middle of that range.) That information is obviously not as precise as one would wish, but it's a start.
 
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