A Country of their own split from Poll: Was slavery the cause of the war?

Sesech

Sergeant
Joined
Dec 9, 2015
Messages
641
Location
Alabama
#1
So a US President should allow the country be blackmailed into giving up possessions? What US President could ever do that....
A president that didn't want to start a war with his own country. Again, why resupply/reinforce an untenable position knowing it is going to start a war, especially since he'd made very little effort at trying to find a peaceful solution.
 

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CSA Today

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
Messages
18,862
Location
Laurinburg NC
#2
A president that didn't want to start a war with his own country. Again, why resupply/reinforce an untenable position knowing it is going to start a war, especially since he'd made very little effort at trying to find a peaceful solution.
A major provocation was Lincoln declaring the Confederate States part of his own country.
 
Joined
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Bloemfontein, Vrystaat, Republiek van Suid-Afrika
#5
Why, the freedom of each state to withdraw from the compact as it sees fit.
Oh but no one was going to "take away" such a freedom since such a freedom never existed. We are speaking now of events prior to secession. At what point did the United States of America threaten to take away any supposed right to secede?

This does not have reference to any likelihood of legal interpretation but a specific threat issued by the government of the United States of America in 1860 - pray cite the document in which the government of Buchanan (or the president elect himself, A Lincum) wrote: "we will take away the freedom of each state to withdraw from the perpetual Union"

Thank you
 

jgoodguy

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Retired Moderator
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Aug 17, 2011
Messages
35,407
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Birmingham, Alabama
#10
Seems like we have rounded three sides of a square to come back to our obvious starting point.
We seem to do that around here.
So the beginning is that the Southern Revolutionaries revolted, calling it secession; in order to protect an economic asset essential to the Cotton South, slavery, then went to war to protect the resulting nation.
 

JerseyBart

Brigadier General
Moderator
Forum Host
Joined
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#11
We seem to do that around here.
So the beginning is that the Southern Revolutionaries revolted, calling it secession; in order to protect an economic asset essential to the Cotton South, slavery, then went to war to protect the resulting nation.
That's about the small and skinny of it.
 

ole

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Retired Moderator
Joined
Feb 20, 2005
Messages
34,452
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Near Kankakee
#18
Had I been a Confederate and owned or borrowed a slave, you know who I woul have carrying mu gear.
 

CW Buff

First Sergeant
Joined
Dec 22, 2014
Messages
1,492
Location
Connecticut
#19
I'm not arguing the legality of secession. I'm simply saying they believed it was legal. If they didn't believe it was then they must have not cared if it was or not. The upper South went to war when Lincoln decided to coerce the other states back into the Union. Obviously the upper South felt that those states had a right to secede. How nobody can see that is beyond my comprehension. If you want to say they were wrong then that's okay by me. I have seen arguments for and against the legality of secession that were both convincing. In my opinion the jury is still out.
Sorry for the lag, not much spare time lately.

First, I’ll note that it was you who first responded to my post, which was a discussion of “the legality of unilateral secession”. And, of course, you never addressed my original points.

Second, you seem to be all over the board here: “the fact that secession was lawful” (post #1696), “I'm not arguing the legality of secession”, “coerce the other states back into the Union”, and “In my opinion the jury is still out”.

Third, you have not yet provided me anything of substance in your posts for me to address, which is why I responded by simply asking for substance. If it is so obvious that they truly believed the states could legally secede, then it should be extremely easy to demonstrate that with some substance.

Fourth, and lastly, there seems to be at least one hole in your theory. TN did not secede, they declared independence. In fact, in the TN Declaration of Independence and Ordinance they stated that they were “waiving any expression of opinion as to the abstract doctrine of secession”. That doesn’t sound like someone going to war in support of secession. Their declaration also presents a catch-22: they indicate they “hereby, henceforth, become a free, sovereign, and independent state”. So they weren’t before, when they asserted “the right, as a free and independent people, to alter, reform, or abolish our form of government in such manner as we think proper”. Seems more like they were invoking the moral right to revolution, as the Founding Fathers did, minus “a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.”
 

CW Buff

First Sergeant
Joined
Dec 22, 2014
Messages
1,492
Location
Connecticut
#20
Opinions, opinions, opinions. There are strong opinions, there are weak opinions. Opinions are not law I have heard it said many times here on CWT. And those opinions should be passed and proven on law, but there is NO law against SECESSION! I think this is about the thousandth time I have posted something of this nature. Seeing as how there never was a law specifically stating otherwise, then there is an obvious truth. Secession was not illegal at that time period. :smile coffee:
Does SCOTUS case law count? Does the Constitutional Convention count? According to them: fact – the Constitution is NOT a compact among the states (so compact theory is and was a fiction); fact - the Constitution binds the state sovereignties; fact – the people of the US are the sovereigns of the whole country. Secession violates each of these decisions. The obvious truth is that secession was illegal at that time period. All else is "Opinions, opinions, opinions." :banghead:
 



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