Golden Thread 5 Generals Were Promoted to Lt Gen of the CSA On Oct 10th, 1862 Longstreet was #1 and Jackson #4

War Horse

Captain
Member of the Year
Regtl. Quartermaster Gettysburg 2017
Joined
Sep 4, 2014
Location
Lexington, SC
I think Jackson was scratching his own head trying to understand this man...he done pretty good when all was said and done, though.
He did except, when it came to joint operations. As a rogh in the valley he exceeded expectations. In joint efforts he often was dissipionting.
 
Last edited:

Eagle eye

First Sergeant
Joined
Apr 28, 2011
Location
Michigan City,In
Meant very kindly btw.
--------------------
IIRC the CSA was quickly forming an Army & Navy & put a lot of stock on former USA officers especially those with West Point educations. It seems like very sound logic early on. After a few battles the superior leaders rose to the top and quickly were promoted to higher ranks. Hampton & Forest come to mind and many more.
 

IcarusPhoenix

Sergeant Major
Joined
May 22, 2011
Location
Albuquerque, New Mexico
It's a rarity that I recommend the Wikipedia article, but in this case, the Civil War generals lists are spot-on accurate for names, ranks, dates, and general notes. There is a small community who have worked on that and policed each other, and a few years ago some of us got together and polished up the basic reference lists. The Confederate list is here:


While I don't know the actual order of the brigadier and major generals' lists, you'll note both men have the same date-of-rank on both. As for why Jackson was so far down the lieutenant general's list, you have to remember the rank was created in the wake of the Seven Days, during which Jackson's performance ranged anywhere between abysmal and mediocre. This is why Lee gave Jackson a corps that was barely half the size of the one he created for Longstreet when he reorganized the army after - another reason for the difference in seniority. The assumption was that Jackson operated better with a smaller, faster, more maneuverable force, the hammer to Longstreet's anvil.
 

Jamieva

Captain
Forum Host
Joined
Feb 7, 2006
Location
Midlothian, VA
Longstreet
Brigadier 6/17/61
Major 10/7/61
Lieutentant 10/9/62


Jackson
Brigadier
6/17/61
Major 10/7/61
Lieutenant No date in Wikipedia

I just glanced throught the Wiki for both and this is what is listed. It does not mention the order.
 

War Horse

Captain
Member of the Year
Regtl. Quartermaster Gettysburg 2017
Joined
Sep 4, 2014
Location
Lexington, SC
I thought Davis took a dislike to Stonewall after their first meeting at Manassas, and didn't recognize his abilities till later on. Wouldn't that have been a major consideration in the promotional rankings?
His promotion came shortly prior to Fredericksburg just after Antietam. So there wasn't much time left for Jackson. Many of his successes had already have been made. Fredericksburg is the first place he wore the new uniforms that were gifts from Stewart and his wife.
 

Northern Light

Lt. Colonel
Joined
Jul 21, 2014
This is a bit off topic, but it is something that has confused me for a long time. Were Lt. Generals in the CSA different in rank from the Union army? All these men were Lt. Generals, but Grant was the only Lt. General in Union army, wasn't he? Were there any full generals in the US Army?
 

rpkennedy

Lt. Colonel
Member of the Year
Joined
May 18, 2011
Location
Carlisle, PA
This is a bit off topic, but it is something that has confused me for a long time. Were Lt. Generals in the CSA different in rank from the Union army? All these men were Lt. Generals, but Grant was the only Lt. General in Union army, wasn't he? Were there any full generals in the US Army?

Not at that time. The rank of Lieutenant General had been retired by tradition as the highest rank that George Washington held (in the post-Revolution period).

R
 

ErnieMac

Major
Forum Host
Silver Patron
Retired Moderator
Joined
May 3, 2013
Location
Pennsylvania
This is a bit off topic, but it is something that has confused me for a long time. Were Lt. Generals in the CSA different in rank from the Union army? All these men were Lt. Generals, but Grant was the only Lt. General in Union army, wasn't he? Were there any full generals in the US Army?
The United States Army from the time of American independence until the Civil War was relatively small and dispersed. The rank of Lieutenant General was bestowed on George Washington as it appeared that a war with France was likely in 1798, but was abolished a year later. From that time forward the highest rank, including the commander of all of the US Armies, was Major General. Winfield Scott was brevetted to Lieutenant General, but never awarded the full rank.

In the spring of 1864 Grant was promoted to Lieutenant General in command of all US Armies. The individual US Army commanders and Corps commanders still held no higher rank than Major General. After the War the rank of General of the Army was created for Grant. It was used to denote him as the commander of all US Armies and subsequently held by Sherman and Sheridan. That rank was abolished after Sheridan's death in 1888. Sheridan's successors, John M. Schofield and Nelson A. Miles, served most of their terms as Major General. Schofield was not promoted to Lieutenant General until a few months before his 1895 retirement and Miles waited until 1900 for his promotion. It would not be until WWI that the US began to use the higher ranks on a regular basis.
 

Northern Light

Lt. Colonel
Joined
Jul 21, 2014
Thanks you for the information. Does anyone know why the CSA used a different system, as I understand there were at least 5 full generals in the CSA, including Lee?
 

IcarusPhoenix

Sergeant Major
Joined
May 22, 2011
Location
Albuquerque, New Mexico
Thanks you for the information. Does anyone know why the CSA used a different system, as I understand there were at least 5 full generals in the CSA, including Lee?
There were originally five, who were - in descending order of rank - Samuel Cooper, Albert Sidney Johnston, Robert E. Lee, Joseph E. Johnston, and P.G.T. Beauregard. After A.S. Johnston's death, Bragg was promoted to general, and the Confederate congress later created a sixth generalship for Edmund Kirby Smith. Additionally, John Bell Hood was granted the rank on a temporary basis in 1864, but reverted to his permanent rank of lieutenant general after being removed from command of the Army of Tennessee.

As for the why of it's difference, the answer is that it wasn't a different system; it was the same British-based system the U.S. Army used, but they went ahead and utilized the top two generals' ranks that went unused by the U.S., probably for the sake of organizational clarity.
 
Joined
Aug 25, 2013
Location
Hannover, Germany
Faraway, what did you think of the Prussian's accent?

Urgh, I think he sounds awful but I'm afraid that is how a German accent sounds to you. Many Germans have difficulties with the "th" as we don't have that, so they use "z" instead.
"Zat" sounds awful, even to my German ears! Ans moreover most of us speak "st" as in "Stuart" not as "s" and "t" but as "sh" and "t", so he says "Shtuart". In fact in northern Germany more people say e.g. s-trawberries and that is considered being arrogant. Stout Germans say shtrawberries! And the way he says "generaal" is how the word, which is the same as ours, is pronounced in German. I always found it remarkable that Stuart and von Borcke were so close, given the difficulties of the different language. But it seems great minds recognize each other across the language barrier!

Interesting I get much enjoyment when I read about the relationship between Jacskson and Stewart. The story of the night they slept together particularly tickles me. The original odd couple.

Now that is a teaser! Never heard of that! Would you abuse your own thread in so far as to tell? Or tell elsewhere and give the link? They must have been strange bedfellows!!
 

M E Wolf

Colonel
Retired Moderator
Joined
Feb 9, 2008
Location
Virginia
All are welcome to consult the listing of Confederate Generals and their biographs, which include their promotions and ranks. Its in the "Sticky" Folders.

That said, I also listed the Union Generals as well -- in a different sticky folder.

As far as rank goes, the Confederate Army was created on the same format as the "Old Army" for speed's sake, however; it was stream lined a lot and the structure of rank was broader. Most of these "generals" in the Old Army, did not hold a General's rank, with the exception of one--and, he was slighted when others obtained a higher rank than he held in the Old Army.

Robert E. Lee was a Colonel in the Old Army, at the time of his resignation. Samuel Cooper, Adjutant-General in the Old Army was a full Colonel as well--promotions were far and few between. It just wasn't that big of an Army before the war broke out. With the hard to reach rank of General--I can only assume it was used as a carrot to lure those who hesitated to resign their Old U.S. Army Commission, their pensions to become into question should they resign and be defeated...might be loosing their pensions in addition to being executed for treason, etc.

Samuel Cooper was the first full General promoted and would be senior to all other Generals, to include Lee. One may observe the Confederate General rankings were two steps higher than the Union's (Old Army).

Winfield Scott, was holding the Brevet rank of Lieutenant-General. So, being an honorary rank --he was able to be addressed as Lieutenant-General; and was the Commanding General of all the Armies of the United States, until his resignation. Only when Lincoln found Grant to be the correct man for the job, Lincoln had to resurrect General George Washington's rank of Lieutenant-General, due to Major-General Halleck's seniority and of course the personality conflicts between Grant and Halleck, going back to the battlefields in the Western theater. Lincoln had to make Grant highest in rank so that Halleck had to be obedient to Grant--plain and simple.

Another differences in the CSA and USA military rank structure; the CSA did not use the brevet rank with the exception of brevet second lieutenant --which was a means to promote someone from non-commissioned officer into a commissioned officer's slot until that individual could be properly and fully commissioned--passing his exams.

The USA military continued to use Brevet rank through WWI.

During the Civil War, an additional measure of rankings, was that a person could hold two commissions -- Their Regular Army Rank and a Volunteer Army Rank. Usually, the Regulars wore the highest rank possible, as they were often put in charge of State Volunteer Troops. Majority of Union Generals would have dual commissions. Once the War was over, many were reverted to their old U.S. Army Regular Rank, such as demonstrated by George A. Custer. Some were promoted to the same as their volunteer commission, which was a form of gratitude and--continued extended services to oversee the transfer back to civilian control over disputed states and territories.

Just my thoughts, observations, comments and opinions,
M. E. Wolf
 
Top