2nd battle of Sabine Pass, Fort Griffin Cannon, their carriages, What type were they?

Mike d

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Apr 25, 2012
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Hi all
I have been working on the details of Fort Griffin. I am trying to determine what type of carriage the cannon there were mounted on. They had 2 banded 32prs longs (guessing 1841 pattern, but only a guess) , 2- 24pdrs, long, and 2 Howitzers (maybe carronades??)
From all I can find, they are listed as mounted on their "Carriage". What type though I cannot find. Based upon the fort type. I do not think it was a forward pivot pin type like a Seacoast Barbette Carriage as it needed to transverse 90 degrees or very slightly greater.
A typical field carriage would have not worked as the recoil would have rolled it back into the area of its neighbor and caused mutual interference.
I think a center pivot Columbiad type may have been used, but the fort was Sand/shell over compacted sand/shell. The rail I am thinking would have just sunk deep into the earth.
Any thoughts on the matter? Does anyone by chance know??
Thanks
 
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Cotham's Sabine Pass does not discuss the carriages specifically, although it does go into some detail about the construction of the fort and procuring the guns for it. Center-pivot carriages seem most likely (and practical) to me. The engineers responsible for the project, Sulakowski and Kellersberger, did a good job in both the design and placement of Fort Griffin, and undoubtedly tried to make them of as high a standard as resources allowed. Timber was used extensively in sand forts of this type generally, and Fort Griffin specifically, so I would expect the gun positions themselves to be reinforced and decked over, as in this image from Charleston:

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No. There is a small state park commemorating it nearby. The walking beam from U.S.S. Clifton, captured in the battle, has been conserved and is displayed there.

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The western wall is still dry land, though not standing, Hurricanes, river current and father time have eroded the rest into the Sabine River. There is a concrete 1/20 scale 3d renditon of the fort there and markers to show where the ships were at.
I am still researching to find if the mass grave is still there and unlocated or if at the end of the war, if the persons were re-interned elsewhere.
The park is really quite nice there. worth the stop for sure if your in the area.
 
From all I can find, they are listed as mounted on their "Carriage". What type though I cannot find. Based upon the fort type. I do not think it was a forward pivot pin type like a Seacoast Barbette Carriage as it needed to transverse 90 degrees or very slightly greater.
Orders from Sulakowski for substantial improvements at Fort Griffin were cut just under a month after the battle. Most of it was in reference to making Griffin capable of resisting infantry attacks (which it was not before the battle.. this was the case at Fort Esperanza which had to be abandoned after being attacked by infantry), but part of the orders were -

"as soon as a barbette carriage is constructed, you will take one 32-pounder from the Clifton, and mount it in place of the 24-pounder pintle in center. The 24-pounter to be moved to the lunette, and placed in the capitol."

By lunette, I believe he refers to the bastion built on the west side of the fort.

Interesting information but I'm afraid it still doesn't answer your question definitively, though Andy's reply did, I believe :hungry:
 
Cotham's Sabine Pass does not discuss the carriages specifically, although it does go into some detail about the construction of the fort and procuring the guns for it. Center-pivot carriages seem most likely (and practical) to me. The engineers responsible for the project, Sulakowski and Kellersberger, did a good job in both the design and placement of Fort Griffin, and undoubtedly tried to make them of as high a standard as resources allowed. Timber was used extensively in sand forts of this type generally, and Fort Griffin specifically, so I would expect the gun positions themselves to be reinforced and decked over, as in this image from Charleston:

View attachment 289075

The body language of the gun crew resonates even today. This should be a book cover for the topic.
 
I am still researching to find if the mass grave is still there and unlocated or if at the end of the war, if the persons were re-interned elsewhere.
The park is really quite nice there. worth the stop for sure if your in the area.
If you're referring to the mass grave(s) of the yellow fever victims, it's in the Sabine Pass Cemetery, which is still in use. Veterans of both the War of 1812 and the Iraq War, and almost every American war in between, are buried there.

Despite it still being in use, the cemetery is in terrible shape. Its south border is saltwater marsh, and many, many graves have been lost. Lots of headstones are sunk or broken, and much of the ground has been plowed up by feral hogs. There's a shell road that makes a loop around the middle of the cemetery, and the sunken area in the middle of the loop are the mass graves.
 
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