1853 and 1859 Sharps

Joined
Jul 13, 2014
Location
North Texas
As a guest I don't think I am able to post this question in the appropriate sub-forum. I apologize if this is inappropriate here.

What is the difference between the 1853 Sharps and the 1859?

Am I correct in viewing that the 1853 were the models associated with Beecher's Bibles and John Brown?

I thought it would be interesting to own a functioning replica of the 1853 Sharps. Unfortunately, Pedersoli doesn't appear to offer one. I am curious if the mechanically inclined could modify the 1859 to appear as the 1853. I doubt I will purchase one, I tend to think about buying these sort of things and never actually doing it.

Thank you for your time.
 
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Model 1859 breech compared to the 1853 slant breech. The 1853 brings more money than the 1859. They are basically the same otherwise.
 
Thank you for the warm welcome.

Thank you Mr. Owen. I had read descriptions of the 1853 slanted breech, but only now do I understand what was meant by that.

While I would love to have an original, that isn't in my budget. I am not sure a replica 1859 is either. I have always had an interest in firearms of the period, or in general. Growing up I had replica cap-n-ball revolvers. I have always wanted paper cartridge breech loaded weapon, and given my interest in the conflicts leading up to the Civil War, it would be nice to have a percussion Sharps collecting dust with my other firearms.
 
There is no practical, economic way to modify a replica '59 Pedersoli Sharps into a Slant Breech, '53 Sharps. It could be done by a very competent gunsmith/machinist, but it would be VERY expensive.

My understanding is also, that the 1853 "Slant Breech" Sharps had some rather severe "gas leakage" problems at the breech. The British Cavalry adopted a .577 Caliber, slightly modified '53 Sharps and one of the complaints from the field was that the gas leakage was so bad, a cavalryman's uniform might be set on fire when he fired his Sharps!

The Rifle Shoppe will sell you the investment castings for a '53 Sharps. You can easily obtain a barrel for your Sharps, but a qualified machinist or gunsmith will be required to fit the barrel to the breech of your replica '53 Sharps and assemble the arm.

http://www.therifleshoppe.com/catalog_pages/us_arms/(910).htm

WARNING: Some people order items from The Rifle Shoppe and get prompt service. I know that it took them over 1 year to deliver my order. Others, I understand, have waited for over 5 years to receive their orders.

IMA sells a Nepal made '53 Sharps that they "speculate" is somehow Confederate in origin, claiming that they were made in Georgia during the Civil War. In their description they again speculate that the State of Georgia had no '59 Sharps to copy, but used a '53 instead. IMA does NOT mention that immediately before the war, the State of Georgia purchased over 1,500 Sharps '59 Carbines directly from the Sharps company-so, IF Georgia had wanted to duplicate a Sharps, they did have '59 models to copy.

I have gone thru ALL the records of the records of the Georgia Adjutant General's office in the State Archives, and there is no mention of any Sharps ever being produced in Georgia during the Civil War. In other words, NO Sharps were ever manufactured in Georgia during the Civil War period.

If you have the "Sharps Bug" just get a good Pedersoli replica '59 Sharps and shoot that. I highly recommend a $20.00 "O Ring Job" and you will be able to shoot 60 to 100 rounds before the breech gets difficult to open and close due to powder fouling.

GOOD LUCK!

http://www.ima-usa.com/u-s-civil-war-confederate-sharps-type-slant-breach-carbine.html
 
Approximately 10.500 1853 Sharpe's Carbine were made and one of the differences between the 1853 and 1859 was that the 1853 has brass patchboxes and the 1859 had iron ones. The patchboxes were removed from the 1863 and 1865 models.
 
The "improvement" in the '59 Sharps over the '53 Sharps is (among others) the Lawrence Gas Check Plate in the breech block.
Theoretically, when the arm is fired; gas from the exploding powder rushes into the recess in the gas check plate and pushes the plate forward to the rear of the barrel, hopefully "sealing the breech."

The Lawrence Gas Check Plate invention was only "perfected" in the 20th Century when some smart Skirmisher figured out he could grind some metal off of the rear of the protrusion of the Lawrence Gas Check Plate, enough metal so a neoprene "O Ring" could be seated under it in the breech block assembly.

What the "O Ring" does is to obdurate on the moment of firing, sealing off most of the leakage of gas into the breech, thereby preventing most of the fouling from getting into the breech and causing the action to "lock up" from fouling. Some gunsmiths charge hundreds of dollars for this simple modification. I paid a machine shop less than $20.00 to grind down my Lawrence Gas Check Plate protrusion so I could get an O Ring to seat under it.

It was one of those "Grind a few thou off and try the fit" deals until just enough (but not too much) metal had been ground off the protrusion of the Gas Check Plate.
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Ideally, when seated, the O Ring will "push" the Gas Check Plate forward a few thou of an inch, causing it to nestle up flat against the rear of the barrel when the action is closed. I have to change out O Rings every 200 to 300 shots, so I carry a supply of spare O Rings in the patchbox of my Sharps.
 
Oh yes-the machinist must use a precision "Surface Grinder" and not a regular wheel type grinder to grind down the rear protrusion of the Lawrence Gas Check Plate. Also, this modification is for the "old style" Pedersoli Sharps percussion breech block because Pedersoli changed the design of their Lawrence Gas Check Plate several years ago and I don't know what will work with their new design..
 
In years past I have owned and shot two original 1859 Sharps. There is something deeply rewarding about taking an old, original firearm, rehabilitating it and wringing accuracy out of it. Until you shoot a gun a lot, you never really get to "know it."
Also, as a historian, I can much better appreciate the role that Sharps Carbines played in our history.

Being temporarily enveloped in a swirling, bluish/gray cloud of black powder gunsmoke when shooting is the sight and smell of the first 300 years of American History. The history that runs from Plymouth and Jamestown, to Boonesboro, to Lexington and Concord, to the Alamo, Gettysburg and The Little Big Horn and thousands of other places in our land. In other words, shooting these old guns brings "History Alive," something that can never be experienced by simply reading about history on the printed page or simply hanging an old gun on a wall; silencing it forever.
 
In years past I have owned and shot two original 1859 Sharps. There is something deeply rewarding about taking an old, original firearm, rehabilitating it and wringing accuracy out of it. Until you shoot a gun a lot, you never really get to "know it."
Also, as a historian, I can much better appreciate the role that Sharps Carbines played in our history.

Being temporarily enveloped in a swirling, bluish/gray cloud of black powder gunsmoke when shooting is the sight and smell of the first 300 years of American History. The history that runs from Plymouth and Jamestown, to Boonesboro, to Lexington and Concord, to the Alamo, Gettysburg and The Little Big Horn and thousands of other places in our land. In other words, shooting these old guns brings "History Alive," something that can never be experienced by simply reading about history on the printed page or simply hanging an old gun on a wall; silencing it forever.
I agree. It just not right to squirrel away a perfectly serviceable firearm and treat with the same "white glove" treatment that's given a vase from the Ming Dynasty. Shoot it by all means!
 
What sort of price tag comes with a safe and functioning weapon from the period? Not limited to the 1853, say the 1861 Springfeild and Enfield also? Where does one find something like that?
 
The vast majority of muzzleloaders on the market today are replica muzzleloaders and their quality runs from superb to barely above "Junk" status.

To start with, check out the "Gunbroker" website on a regular basis:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Black-Powder-Muzzleloaders/BI.aspx

You will see a lot of replica arms advertised but also occasionally an original gun for sale.

Keep in mind that some of the guns advertised on Gunbroker are modern "In-Line" muzzleloaders which have no historical significance as they were only invented in the 1970's to allow modern deer hunters to take advantage of "Muzzleloader Only" deer seasons.

Google "Lodgewood Manufacturing" as they sell originals, replicas and have parts for original guns.

Send a Money Order for $5.00 to:

Dixie Gun Works
1412 West Reelfoot Avenue,
Union City, Tennessee 38261

They will send you their 688 page catalog. While DGW handles mostly replica firearms and replica parts. They also have a lot of information about shooting muzzleloaders in their catalog, so it is good for a reference book also. DGW also does have a list or original firearms they have for sale. In your order for the catalog, you can request that they send you that list of original firearms they have for sale. Their catalog is a definite "must have."

You can go to the North-South Skirmish Association website:

www.n-ssa.org/

And from there go to their Bulletin Board. They have several different "pages" that have a lot of information about shooting original and replica Civil War military issue firearms. They also have a "Buy, Sell, Trade" page on which original firearms are occasionally listed.

Also Google:

S & S Firearms, Glendale, New York

They sell original and replica parts for a variety of muzzleloaders and replica firearms.

Cabela's sells the Pedersoli line of replica firearms. They have "in stock" replica '61 Springfields, Enfields, '59 Pedersoli Sharps Carbines and Rifles, percussion pistols, etc.

If you decide to buy a replica rifle-musket the BEST is the Pedersoli Naval Rifle Enfield. The original Naval Rifles were so accurate that at British NRA target matches in the 1860's, any competitor using a Naval Rifle automatically had 10 points deducted from his final score because the Naval Rifle was recognized as being much more accurate than a regular, P-53 Enfield!


The Enfied Naval Rifle was also the "Rifle of Choice" and issued to Confederate Sharpshooter Battalions (when they were available.) In actual fact, the Union also purchased and issued a lot of Enfield Naval Rifles during the Civil War.

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Pede...+and+muskets&WTz_l=Header;Search-All+Products

One good thing about Cabelas is that they have a very good return policy. IF you are not happy with something you have ordered from them, they will replace it, no questions asked.

Tim Prince operateS "College Hill Arsenal" and he deals exclusively in ORIGINAL guns. While they are pricey, Tim includes a complete description with every firearm he lists. You can learn a lot just reading his descriptions. He also keeps a lot of guns that he has sold up on his website so you can read the descriptions of the history and condition of the gun, just in case you run into anything similar.

http://www.collegehillarsenal.com/shop/product.php?productid=1118&cat=9&page=1

Some of the other original dealers are: "Rock Island Arsenal," James D. Julia, " "Shiloh Relics." You can Google their websites.

GOOD LUCK!
 
I had seen Shilo Relics as well as Lodgewood. I will check out the others. It has been many years, but I once owned and shot replica Hawken rifles and an assortment of cap-n-ball revolvers. I have never considered an original.
 
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go with a '59 or a '63, and you won't be sorry. If you do want a '52/'53, there are a few on Gunbroker, and if 3-5k is not out of you budget, then just get on, because to have one converted would be insane. You would be better to start from scratch with a block of steel and a milling machine.
 
the 1853 model of the Slant Breech Sharps carbine I find very interesting. Being a retired Lawman/Investigator I realize that presently solving the presence of "unmarked" as in "stamped" slant breech possibly cloned examples currently available in very limited numbers is quite a challenge to most anyone...YET...there is a solution somewhere..! Southron (Sgt.) posted a very respectable albeit interesting essay on what he did & did not locate in his searching the archives of the State of Georgia producing cloned Sharps carbine(s) during the Civil War time-frame. That statement is valid. I myself find it an interesting fact that the slant breech Sharps was NOT produced during the CW...but stopped upon the 1859 variant...or so it appears. Bear in mind that the "war years" were from 1861-65. The Southern states esp. S. Carolina among a few others were proponents of secession beginning around 1859+/- ..that said, the south was gearing up for a projected conflict should such arise. Britain was a huge customer for cotton...later on a supplier of weaponry for the CSA. due to the fact that southern Armories/weapons mfg'ing was trying-copying several weapons designs. many near clones had existing copyrights still enforceable on 'northern manufacturers. The Sharps rifle/carbine apparently was (1) the South had tried to clone-produce...BUT..the design of the action was pricey and difficult to produce even after several copies were apparently completed and not further attempted albeit even successfully. Enter the Brits...in my opinion they made confederate weaponry partially in exchange for precious Cotton. The brits (did) have adequate machinery & expertise to clone the Sharps weapon...even tho copyrights were still valid. whomever made these perhaps hundreds if not a few thousand made them w/o identifying the maker.....! these Nepalese examples to ME are proof positive someone produced near perfect copies of the 'slant breech Sharps..! I presently own (2) examples of these 'alleged' Nepal cache found recently by IMA. Here is another fact that few are aware of...my (2) clones have separate dismounting pins to take down the breech block assembly. The Early one has the forearm tension spring held by tension the arbor Pin...the other one has the more common upright pin standing upward by itself...NOW, consider this...why would Nepal change production design for a few thousand examples for a locating/arbor pin..?? Even the Brits for that matter..?? Obviously some manufacturer did so...i direct my attention to either USA or British Empire as it was known during this period in history...value wise..I tend to think Positive and it is easily to determine of all the Sharps produced whether 'authentic" or "cloned"...these obviously are the rarest out there my Friend. Regardless of what "others" opine...I am very content to own the (2) unmarked examples along with my CW Sharps Carbines "New Model" variant.
 
Years back, I owned a "John Brown" Sharps. One of the diffences between the two Sharps in question was the "saddle ring." The '53 Sharps had a long rod to attach rather then the "saddle ring" of the '59 and '61 Sharps
 
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