Handguns 1851 Navy Colt (Engraved FRANK JAMES)

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hrobalabama

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This serial # and Hartford Barrel address puts it in a pre-civil war setting that would pay to write Colt Archives for a
Colt letter. Its not too far off from a Colt Navy I owned in my collection that was shipped to Charleston, SC just a week or so before Ft. Sumter. Also one that was shipped to Richmond, VA three days after Ft. Sumter. There was a huge bit of arms trade to the South from money hungry Northern business men, Col. Colt included. Forget about "Frank James."
 
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tripped

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But if he owned it, it WAS HIS gun. There's nothing false or misleading to the provenance in that case, unless one is claiming its linked to a specific robbery or shooting...…..

In a case like James boys, they were known to carry upwards to 10 revolvers during the war, and would be forced to leave some behind when jumped, throw away during fights, to simply replace later with other captured/stolen arms...Not to mention followed by a 17 year outlaw career...the numbers of guns that passed through his or Jesse's hands would be considerable, and almost impossible to document the majority of them's provenance or being linked to any specific act, anymore then any he bought and sold post outlaw
What reliable sources say that the James’ carried 10 pistols?
 

archieclement

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What reliable sources say that the James’ carried 10 pistols?
"They" referred to guerrillas. Most sources on guerrillas note them carrying multiple pistols, Archie Clement for example was killed after using 14 in a fight. BTW i said upwards of 10, not specifically 10, but could have said upwards of 14 as we know it was done. In Archies case it includes guns he carried on his horse.
 
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archieclement

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Just as an aside, after he became a sports writer, Bat Masterson would buy a gun in a pawn shop and keep it in his desk at the newspaper office to sell to some tourist who had come by to meet the great gun fighter.
Which would have made the gun in fact owned by Bat Masterson..........buying guns to sell as souvenirs still indicates ownership of what he was selling as souvenirs
 
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tripped

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"They" referred to guerrillas. Most sources on guerrillas note them carrying multiple pistols, Archie Clement for example was killed after using 14 in a fight. BTW i said upwards of 10, not specifically 10, but could have said upwards of 14 as we know it was done. In Archies case it includes guns he carried on his horse.
Mosby and his crowd were said to carry two each. I’d like to see the rig that allowed someone to carry 14 on a horse.
 

archieclement

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Mosby and his crowd were said to carry two each. I’d like to see the rig that allowed someone to carry 14 on a horse.
I was at a reenactment of the event, and it didnt look hard at all, people tend to forget pocket pistols were popular in the CW era and could be carried from pockets to boots, on a horse saddle holsters were used as well, besides saddlebags.

Guerrillas took weapons from union soldiers......and civilians as well, so had a wide variety available.

I was at a gun museum in Arkansas that had a huge selection of period pieces, as well as some with outlaw provenance, was surprised by todays standards many looked like toys in how small they were http://berryville.com/saunders-museum/ I dont have big hands and many looked if they would have been awkward as some of the revolvers and grips were way small.
 
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Patrick H

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Mosby and his crowd were said to carry two each. I’d like to see the rig that allowed someone to carry 14 on a horse.
You seem to be assuming that they were all carried in holster rigs on the gunman's body at the same time. No one is asserting that. Pistols were carried in saddle holsters, across the shoulders of horses, in saddle bags, tucked into belts, in pockets, in boots, etc., etc., etc. It is common (the norm, in fact) to see three or four revolvers visible in any seated photo of a Missouri guerrilla. Google some images and see for yourself. When the real Little Archie Clements died in Lexington, Missouri, he had expended and dropped eleven or twelve revolvers and was still holding one--attempting to cock it with his teeth. Use the internal search engine to find my thread on that incident: The Death of Little Archie Clements.
 
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7thWisconsin

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Carrying lots of pistols was a Missouri guerrilla distinctive. Their signature tactic was the pistol charge - go at the enemy as quickly and loudly as possible all weapon systems firing. One the day he died, in his own home, Jesse James was wearing 4 pistols. 4 on the body; another 4 on the pommel and a couple more elsewhere is very doable. Cap and ball revolvers are slow to reload, so they're not re-loadable in combat. Sometimes I think the revolver allowed firepower in its day that analogous to the submachinegun in our own.
 

zburkett

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Mosby and his Partizans were very different from Missouri Guerillas. Their style was totally different as were their tactics. It is well documented the Anderson's men carried a lot of revolvers and Mosby's men were more more conventionally armed.
 
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tripped

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You seem to be assuming that they were all carried in holster rigs on the gunman's body at the same time. No one is asserting that. Pistols were carried in saddle holsters, across the shoulders of horses, in saddle bags, tucked into belts, in pockets, in boots, etc., etc., etc. It is common (the norm, in fact) to see three or four revolvers visible in any seated photo of a Missouri guerrilla. Google some images and see for yourself. When the real Little Archie Clements died in Lexington, Missouri, he had expended and dropped eleven or twelve revolvers and was still holding one--attempting to cock it with his teeth. Use the internal search engine to find my thread on that incident: The Death of Little Archie Clements.
I’d love to see some primary sources that describe guerrillas carry ten or more sidearms. I find this very interesting.
 

Patrick H

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I’d love to see some primary sources that describe guerrillas carry ten or more sidearms. I find this very interesting.
There are lots of sources, and they are not hard to find. If you'll take the time to read through the thread I referenced about the Death of Little Archie Clements, you'll see a reference to an eyewitness account given by a man who was present. You can track down his account online and read it there. That's what I did. You can read "Quantrill and the Border Wars" by William Elsey Connelly online for free. Choose the PDF option so you can see and read his voluminous footnotes. He wrote this book at the turn of the previous century. He knew and befriended numerous former guerrillas, attended their reunions, recorded their eyewitness accounts, etc. etc. etc. It's a good and informative read, but be advised that he was one of the first Quantrill demonizers--even though he later befriended numerous Q. men. You can read "The Gregg Manuscript" online for free. It is a recollection written by William Gregg, who was one of Quantrill's top lieutenants. You can read "Babe of the Company" online for free. It's the memoir of Hamp Watts, who was the youngest recruit in Bill Anderson's outfit. You can read "Three Years With Quantrill", which is the memoir of John McCorckle, who was one of Quantrill's top scouts. It was dictated late in his life, so his timelines are a little fuzzy in places, but his overall recollection is fine. You can read the works of scholars like Albert Castel, James Goodrich, and many others who write knowledgeably about the guerrillas and who will list their primary sources in their chapter notes, footnotes, and bibliographies. You will have to purchase some of these or find them in a public library. From those references, you can track down the primary material. It's all out there.

So, I've given you a heck of a good starter kit of free reference material, but I'm not going to spoon feed the specific passages to you. If you want to see primary research, it isn't hard to find.
 

Patrick H

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You can also do a Google image search for a number of the Missouri guerrillas. They enjoyed having their photos made. In a famous photo of a very young Jesse James, you can see a revolver in his hand and two more in his belt. You may assume he had more on his horse. In a very famous photo of George Maddox, you can see a revolver in each hand, one reversed in a holster, and one more tucked into his belt. You may assume he had more on his horse, too. Again, this stuff is not hard to find. It's only a few clicks away.
 
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Booner

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You can also do a Google image search for a number of the Missouri guerrillas. They enjoyed having their photos made. In a famous photo of a very young Jesse James, you can see a revolver in his hand and two more in his belt. You may assume he had more on his horse. In a very famous photo of George Maddox, you can see a revolver in each hand, one reversed in a holster, and one more tucked into his belt. You may assume he had more on his horse, too. Again, this stuff is not hard to find. It's only a few clicks away.
In the photo of a young Jesse James that Patrick referred to, it was taken at Platte City Mo. in 1864, about a month or so after 16 year old Jesse had joined the guerrillas. It shows him with three pistols, which he probably acquired after he joined the guerrillas, as his home was constantly under surveillance by the local militia and any weapons found would have been removed. His older brother Frank, who joined the guerrillas in the spring of 1863 probably gave him one or two, and other guerrilla friends gave him one or two. It shows you just how many pistols the guerrillas had, when they can give one or two to a new member and still keep four or more for themselves.
It also shows him in his "guerrilla shirt," which his mother had probably made for him.
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Glen_C

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At Centralia, from an eye witness Dr. Sneed to US Major Johnson after the massacre and looting in town

"On the ground, Doctor Sneed asked him if he intended marching out to attack them. "I do," he emphatically responded. Dr. Sneed remonstrated and urged him not to risk a fight with the guerillas. "They largely outnumber you," he said," and they are much better armed and mounted, having four good revolvers each and splendid horses."

Johnson, intending to pursue Anderson and his command
"And they are armed only with revolvers?" he again queried. "Well, they may have the advantage of me in numbers but I will have the advantage of them in arms. My guns are of long range and I can fight them successfully at a distance." Soon after he added, " I will fight them anyhow."

Anderson, being chewed out by Todd, almost stepped down when the pursuing federals were spotted

battle at the farm

"Not a revolver in the crowd " he exultingly exclaimed to Arch. Clements.

Surely, if Clements was carrying 14 revolvers/guns, this would have stood out in these eye witness accounts. I can see how 4 can easily become 14, in myth and literature.

The above from a history of Boone County, compiled from witnesses and citizens, published in 1882

Cheers
GC


 

Glen_C

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So, I've given you a heck of a good starter kit of free reference material, but I'm not going to spoon feed the specific passages to you. If you want to see primary research, it isn't hard to find
Yet, you could at least link the Archie Clement thread.

Cheers
GC
 
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