110th Pennsylvania Brawl

Zella

1st Lieutenant
Joined
May 23, 2018
I recently started reading Gary Ecelbarger's We Are in for It about Kernstown. So far, it's been really good, but I've been intrigued by an incident he briefly refers to early in the book.

On page 6, Ecelbarger talks about how the 110th Pennsylvania had a lot of tension between its companies that had come from rural counties and its 4 Philadelphia-recruited companies. Seems like things came to a head in January 1862 in Hagerstown, Maryland, with some of the troops brawling with each other in the local saloons.

Their officers got them out of town and started marching them on a road that had just been macadamized. Rather than calming down the situation, it just escalated further. A brawl broke out that lasted for about 20 minutes and featured the men chunking goose-egg sized limestone macadam at each other. By the time things settled, there were 3 dead and over 40 injured, including some mortally.

The limestone throwing and the death toll piqued my curiosity, so I wanted to learn more about the event but am finding most histories of the regiment silent on the incident.

The only other mention I found was in another one of Ecelbarger's books. Both times he lists a manuscript history of the regiment in an archive and letters printed in a local newspaper at the time as the sources. I did find a roster for the 110th and located some deaths in Company A that fit the location and date but no further explanation, so that's just surmising on my part that it's connected.

Has anyone come across this brawl being mentioned in other sources? (Thinking I'm maybe just looking in the wrong places.) Did those sources give any more information?

Likewise, is anyone familiar of similar incidents of a regiment attacking each other like this during the Civil War? I've read about the massive snowball fights they used to have with each other, but of course, those always seemed fairly good natured. And featured snowballs, not chunks of rock! :eek:
 
You know, I've read about a few internal disagreements that let to some physical altercations within a regiment, but this one takes the cake for me!
Yeah, when I read about their starter brawls in the saloons, I thought that seemed pretty typical. But the limestone really got my attention!

In the altercations you found, did anybody die or did it seem more like a standard fistfight?
 
I recall Bruce Catton mentioning one of the snowball fights in the Army of Potomac series (have to look it up) where there were several broken heads resulting from a fight that started as just snowballs and moved on to snow-covered rocks as it got more and more out of hand :D
 
Gee whiz. Never bumped into that one before. There's a thread somewhere about a huge snowball fight, but it was men having fun, being kids. ( It's a great thread, especially for the middle of July, when we could use some snow.... )
I always found the snowball fight stories fun! Thanks for the tip on the thread--I'll have to dig around and look for it. I'm all for reading about snow in this heat and humidity. :smile:
 
I recall Bruce Catton mentioning one of the snowball fights in the Army of Potomac series (have to look it up) where there were several broken heads resulting from a fight that started as just snowballs and moved on to snow-covered rocks as it got more and more out of hand :D
Thanks! I'll have to dig around for that one! I know from personal experience that snowball fights can escalate quickly. :wink:
 
I recently started reading Gary Ecelbarger's We Are in for It about Kernstown. So far, it's been really good, but I've been intrigued by an incident he briefly refers to early in the book.

On page 6, Ecelbarger talks about how the 110th Pennsylvania had a lot of tension between its companies that had come from rural counties and its 4 Philadelphia-recruited companies. Seems like things came to a head in January 1862 in Hagerstown, Maryland, with some of the troops brawling with each other in the local saloons.

Their officers got them out of town and started marching them on a road that had just been macadamized. Rather than calming down the situation, it just escalated further. A brawl broke out that lasted for about 20 minutes and featured the men chunking goose-egg sized limestone macadam at each other. By the time things settled, there were 3 dead and over 40 injured, including some mortally.

The limestone throwing and the death toll piqued my curiosity, so I wanted to learn more about the event but am finding most histories of the regiment silent on the incident.

The only other mention I found was in another one of Ecelbarger's books. Both times he lists a manuscript history of the regiment in an archive and letters printed in a local newspaper at the time as the sources. I did find a roster for the 110th and located some deaths in Company A that fit the location and date but no further explanation, so that's just surmising on my part that it's connected.

Has anyone come across this brawl being mentioned in other sources? (Thinking I'm maybe just looking in the wrong places.) Did those sources give any more information?



Likewise, is anyone familiar of similar incidents of a regiment attacking each other like this during the Civil War? I've read about the massive snowball fights they used to have with each other, but of course, those always seemed fairly good natured. And featured snowballs, not chunks of rock! :eek:


https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/26th_Regiment,_New_Jersey_Infantry:


"The 26th New Jersey Infantry Regiment was organized at Camp Frelinghuysen, Newark, New Jersey, and mustered in September 18, 1862. Primarily saw action during the Battle of Fredericksburg and Chancerlorville. Also involved in the first action of the Gettysburg Campaign during the Battle of Franklin's Crossing. Arriving in Stafford, Va., the 26th was notorious as the only Union unit still shooting musket ball weapons.

Assigned to the IX Corps with various Vermont Regiments, the 26th became fierce rivals with their Yankee mates resulting in a few memorable stories. At one point the 5th Vermont suspected the 26th of stealing meat from their butchery so the 5th Vermont laid a trap. The General's recently deceased Newfoundland dog was skinned for taxidermy and the 5th Vermont hung the carcass in their butchery. The next morning the carcass was gone and (apparently) the 26th NJ was well fed on dog meat. For the next few weeks each time the 26th marched by the 5th Vermont, the Vermonters would "bark". This eventually led to a large brawl near the White Oak Church. For additional information visit the White Oak Museum in Stafford, Va."
 
https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/26th_Regiment,_New_Jersey_Infantry:


"The 26th New Jersey Infantry Regiment was organized at Camp Frelinghuysen, Newark, New Jersey, and mustered in September 18, 1862. Primarily saw action during the Battle of Fredericksburg and Chancerlorville. Also involved in the first action of the Gettysburg Campaign during the Battle of Franklin's Crossing. Arriving in Stafford, Va., the 26th was notorious as the only Union unit still shooting musket ball weapons.

Assigned to the IX Corps with various Vermont Regiments, the 26th became fierce rivals with their Yankee mates resulting in a few memorable stories. At one point the 5th Vermont suspected the 26th of stealing meat from their butchery so the 5th Vermont laid a trap. The General's recently deceased Newfoundland dog was skinned for taxidermy and the 5th Vermont hung the carcass in their butchery. The next morning the carcass was gone and (apparently) the 26th NJ was well fed on dog meat. For the next few weeks each time the 26th marched by the 5th Vermont, the Vermonters would "bark". This eventually led to a large brawl near the White Oak Church. For additional information visit the White Oak Museum in Stafford, Va."
That's a wonderful story! Thanks for sharing! I'll have to read more about this rivalry. :smile:
 
http://wesclark.com/jw/110thpa_at_kernstown.html

You may find the above helpful in general re the much-maligned (in general) 110th.

About the brawl, the only sources in Ecelbarger for that incident (brawl is covered in pages 5-6) is in the footnotes (page 280), where he lists (number 18) three references, two of which appear to be letters these two soldiers of the 110th wrote to The Shirleysburg Herald. I haven't tried to get access to these original letters via The Family History Library yet.

Samuel C. Baker (one of the letter-writers) is listed in my gggrandfather's diary as having "died of sickness" some time after Kernstown.

I have decided not to quote Ecelbarger in my book. He firmly states Carroll did not cross the bridge into town on June 8, 1862, whereas my gggrandfather writes twice that Carroll did, and he wrote he did on June 8. Everything my gggrandfather wrote has checked out historically in all the records I've consulted, even down to the minutia of battle. I see no reason why my gggrandfather would have cause to lie in his entry about Carroll that night when he wrote those words, esp. considering he was very honest about his disgust about the war and how bad he felt, etc.

I contacted one of Ecelbarger's publishers, who forwarded him my email re Carroll, but Ecelbarger never responded. AFAIK, the bridge crossing is still up for historical debate. This matters in several ways, not the least of which is the idea Gen. Shields lied, that the Timmons document was a fabrication by Shields to cover up a decision that backfired.

I, too, would like to know more about the brawl. From what I heard back from Andy Waskie (author of the above link), no overall history of the 110th has been written to date. I'm definitely not writing any such history... just an account of one man's four month CW journey. Cheers!
 
http://wesclark.com/jw/110thpa_at_kernstown.html

You may find the above helpful in general re the much-maligned (in general) 110th.

About the brawl, the only sources in Ecelbarger for that incident (brawl is covered in pages 5-6) is in the footnotes (page 280), where he lists (number 18) three references, two of which appear to be letters these two soldiers of the 110th wrote to The Shirleysburg Herald. I haven't tried to get access to these original letters via The Family History Library yet.

Samuel C. Baker (one of the letter-writers) is listed in my gggrandfather's diary as having "died of sickness" some time after Kernstown.

I have decided not to quote Ecelbarger in my book. He firmly states Carroll did not cross the bridge into town on June 8, 1862, whereas my gggrandfather writes twice that Carroll did, and he wrote he did on June 8. Everything my gggrandfather wrote has checked out historically in all the records I've consulted, even down to the minutia of battle. I see no reason why my gggrandfather would have cause to lie in his entry about Carroll that night when he wrote those words, esp. considering he was very honest about his disgust about the war and how bad he felt, etc.

I contacted one of Ecelbarger's publishers, who forwarded him my email re Carroll, but Ecelbarger never responded. AFAIK, the bridge crossing is still up for historical debate. This matters in several ways, not the least of which is the idea Gen. Shields lied, that the Timmons document was a fabrication by Shields to cover up a decision that backfired.

I, too, would like to know more about the brawl. From what I heard back from Andy Waskie (author of the above link), no overall history of the 110th has been written to date. I'm definitely not writing any such history... just an account of one man's four month CW journey. Cheers!
Thanks so much for the link!

I also tried to follow up on Ecelbarger's sources and wasn't able to find the Shirleysburg paper digitized (at least not on Newspapers.com). I did see the other reference is to A Manuscript History of the 110th Pennsylvania in Philadelphia's War Library and Museum by someone named James C. M. Hamilton. I wasn't quite clear on who he was, when it was written, or if it had ever been published. My impression was it is an unpublished manuscript, especially since no year is provided and I can't find an entry for it on Worldcat.

I don't think I've gotten to the bridge incident yet. (I've had a lot of stuff going on lately and haven't been able to read more than a few pages a night.) Currently, the battle is still raging, and General Garnett is going to withdraw his forces tonight if my reading maintains its current schedule. :smile:

I am really intrigued by your ancestor's diary! Sounds like it (and your research) is going to shed some more light on a historical event that merits a lot more discussion and attention than it has received. (I honestly didn't even know anything about Kernstown until a couple of months ago when I became more curious about Garnett.)
 
110th Pennsylvania losses in the whole war.

Regiment lost during service 7 Officers 111 Enlisted men killed and mortally wounded 78 Enlisted men by disease.

I'm pretty sure such a brawl would have been documented unless of course it was swept under the table but I doubt it.

Such a brawl would not have been tolerated by the Brass a breakdown in disciple would have been rewarded with the break up of the regiment and various companies split up and posted to other PA regiments.

Their is some good history on the 110th so this is why I doubt this event happened.
 
110th Pennsylvania losses in the whole war.

Regiment lost during service 7 Officers 111 Enlisted men killed and mortally wounded 78 Enlisted men by disease.

I'm pretty sure such a brawl would have been documented unless of course it was swept under the table but I doubt it.

Such a brawl would not have been tolerated by the Brass a breakdown in disciple would have been rewarded with the break up of the regiment and various companies split up and posted to other PA regiments.

Their is some good history on the 110th so this is why I doubt this event happened.
This is one of the reasons I was curious about it. On one hand, I could see it being considered embarrassing and being kept under wraps. On the other hand, it surprised me that it didn't seem like there were any repercussions/disciplinary action for it.

Edit: I'd really like to see the letters Ecelbarger cites and what they say about it. They're dated from that month, so it seems like they would have been written around the time of the incident.
 
This is one of the reasons I was curious about it. On one hand, I could see it being considered embarrassing and being kept under wraps. On the other hand, it surprised me that it didn't seem like there were any repercussions/disciplinary action for it.

Edit: I'd really like to see the letters Ecelbarger cites and what they say about it. They're dated from that month, so it seems like they would have been written around the time of the incident.

Good luck with that Zella , While it's undisputed that brawls happened between soldiers a brawl on this scale with so many dead could not have been kept a secret not matter what.
 
Good luck with that Zella , While it's undisputed that brawls happened between soldiers a brawl on this scale with so many dead could not have been kept a secret not matter what.
Yes, it seems like the enlisted would definitely be talking about it and the rumor mill would be well in force, even if the officers wanted to keep it quiet!
 
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