10th Pennsylvania / 39th Pennsylvania Regiment???

Al Murray

Sergeant
Joined
Jan 12, 2015
Location
West Virginia
I'm confused. Having a relative in it I have been reading about the 10th aka 39th Pennsylvania regiment but don't understand the confusion in names of the unit, this confusion being alluded to on Wikipedia. I read that when Lincoln called for troops Pennsylvania's enlistments exceeded the needed number, and that one of the higher ups in the government didn't like the Pennsylvania governor, and refused to take the excess into federal service. Wikipedia:

Fifteen regiments were formed, known as the 1st through 15th Pennsylvania Reserves (they were later designated the 30th through 44th Pennsylvania Volunteers, but generally retained the label of the Pennsylvania Reserves). At the time of the redesignation, Pennsylvania had other troops both in the field or in various stages of development using the same numbers. While many of these units used their designations into middle and late 1862, much confusion arose over the naming convention.

What is not clear to me is when did the 10th become the 39th and for what reason? From following Revolutionary War units over the years I know that at that time there were frequent reorganizations of the army which would result in the name of the unit's paper designation changing while nothing changed on the ground. At other times the remainder of a unit would be put under command of officers of another, yet still yet still retain their paper designation under in its old form. Yet in cases like this the regiment of the commanding officer would be listed in the Order of Battle, so to follow the smaller, subsumed unit one had to look for it under both designations.

Does anyone know what happened with this 10th / 39th Pa regiment? Is one a state and another a federal designation? When did the name change? Was it a paper change, or did the 10th join the 39th? What happened in "middle and late 1862?" How would one follow the regiment in the OR if they were using the same designation for more than one? I would look forward to any insight or education on this. Thanks!
 
I'm confused. Having a relative in it I have been reading about the 10th aka 39th Pennsylvania regiment but don't understand the confusion in names of the unit, this confusion being alluded to on Wikipedia. I read that when Lincoln called for troops Pennsylvania's enlistments exceeded the needed number, and that one of the higher ups in the government didn't like the Pennsylvania governor, and refused to take the excess into federal service. Wikipedia:

Fifteen regiments were formed, known as the 1st through 15th Pennsylvania Reserves (they were later designated the 30th through 44th Pennsylvania Volunteers, but generally retained the label of the Pennsylvania Reserves). At the time of the redesignation, Pennsylvania had other troops both in the field or in various stages of development using the same numbers. While many of these units used their designations into middle and late 1862, much confusion arose over the naming convention.

What is not clear to me is when did the 10th become the 39th and for what reason? From following Revolutionary War units over the years I know that at that time there were frequent reorganizations of the army which would result in the name of the unit's paper designation changing while nothing changed on the ground. At other times the remainder of a unit would be put under command of officers of another, yet still yet still retain their paper designation under in its old form. Yet in cases like this the regiment of the commanding officer would be listed in the Order of Battle, so to follow the smaller, subsumed unit one had to look for it under both designations.

Does anyone know what happened with this 10th / 39th Pa regiment? Is one a state and another a federal designation? When did the name change? Was it a paper change, or did the 10th join the 39th? What happened in "middle and late 1862?" How would one follow the regiment in the OR if they were using the same designation for more than one? I would look forward to any insight or education on this. Thanks!

Pennsylvania counted all of their regiments numerically, regardless of which branch it was (infantry, cavalry, and artillery).

So, regiments not only had their branch designation (9th Pennsylvania Cavalry, for example) but it would also have a state designation (92nd Pennsylvania Regiment for the 9th Cavalry).

R
 
Another example would be the 13th Pennsylvania Reserves who were also known as the 42nd Pennsylvania Regiment, the 1st Pennsylvania Rifles, and the Pennsylvania Bucktails.

Wow, thats confusing. The 10th / 39th was also called the "Clarion River Guards" although they were only on the Clarion for a little while.
 
Wow, thats confusing. The 10th / 39th was also called the "Clarion River Guards" although they were only on the Clarion for a little while.

It's not too bad since most regiments usually only went by one name. For example, outside of Pennsylvania records, most of the Pennsylvania Reserves units would be known by that designation and other units would be known by their branch designation (53rd Pennsylvania Infantry, 9th Pennsylvania Cavalry, and so forth.

R
 
Pennsylvania counted all of their regiments numerically, regardless of which branch it was (infantry, cavalry, and artillery).
So, regiments not only had their branch designation (9th Pennsylvania Cavalry, for example) but it would also have a state designation (92nd Pennsylvania Regiment for the 9th Cavalry).

I think I get it - I am looking at the Order of Battle for Antietam and Fredericksburg and the PA units I am looking at are designated there (at least in the Wikipedia version) as the 8th and 10th PA, not the 37th and 39th. But I'm still confused. If the 10th Infantry was the branch (infantry) when did the state designation come into use? Was the 39th their designation in the federal line, or would the 10th have been combined with PA cavalry and artillery and then the aggregate become the 39th? I understand that the 10th was the branch and the 39th was the state designation, but why two designations to begin with? If looking in the reports in the Official Records books would the officers reporting use the branch designation, the state designation, or both?
 
I think I get it - I am looking at the Order of Battle for Antietam and Fredericksburg and the PA units I am looking at are designated there (at least in the Wikipedia version) as the 8th and 10th PA, not the 37th and 39th. But I'm still confused. If the 10th Infantry was the branch (infantry) when did the state designation come into use? Was the 39th their designation in the federal line, or would the 10th have been combined with PA cavalry and artillery and then the aggregate become the 39th? I understand that the 10th was the branch and the 39th was the state designation, but why two designations to begin with? If looking in the reports in the Official Records books would the officers reporting use the branch designation, the state designation, or both?

Probably 90+% of the time, everyone will write the branch or Pennsylvania Reserves designation. Outside of Pennsylvania's records (and even then, the state regimental designation would be secondary to the branch designation), the state regimental designations are hardly ever used.

R
 
Most always the regiments were referred to by their Reserve designation. This situation came about because of the establishment of the Pennsylvania Reserve Volunteer Corps (PRVC) by Pennsylvania in 1861 to equip at Commonwealth expense those volunteer regiments that were in excess of the initial Federal quota, and to be held in "reserve", (hence the PRVC label), subject to orders from Governer Curtin. After the losses at the battle of Bull Run & the expiration of the terms of service of the Commonwealth's 3 month's regiments, the PRVC was ordered into Federal service, remaining until their 3 year enlistment expired in June 1864.
The infantry regiments were formed into a division of 3 brigades. The Commonwealth had to list the regiments onto the state muster roll which then became their "official" government designation, while the reserve assignments were of a "semi-official" identification, used to identify within the PRVC itself, and in extension to the military field assignment. It can be a bit confusing at times.
These were hard fighting regiments. They suffered heavy losses and were extremely proud of their unique distinction. They identified first with their reserve designation, and the state assignment, while important, was a secondary identifier to them. The flags were lettered with both designations, the Reserve designation being listed in conjunction with the regimental "line" assignment. The monuments to the infantry regiments (1st,2nd,5th,6th,9th,10th,11th,12th,13th @ Gettysburg, the 3rd,4th,7th,&8th @ Antietam), are etched with both designations, the Reserve numeration being more prominent. Also, the 13th regiment had a semi-official designation of the 1st Rifle regiment and commonly referred to themselves as the "Bucktails". Other companies and regiments also referred to themselves by various identifiers, as was the case with many other units as well. Often times, even today, they are as a group referred to as simply "The Reserves". There was not a division of troops organized in such fashion, they were truly unique in this respect. So it today remains in common memory.
August Marchetti has a wonderful website devoted to the PRVC- The Pennsylvania Reserve Historical Society-www.pareserves.com. He has amassed a substantial amount of information on The Reserves. It is an excellent site, & he can answer any questions that one might ask.
I hope that this information helps...

Descendant of:
Pvt Jacob Welsh 107th PV WIA-POW
Sgt Daniel Welsh 87th PV KIA
Pvt Joseph Kauffman 10th VA KIA
 
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Most always the regiments were referred to by their Reserve designation. This situation came about because of the establishment of the Pennsylvania Reserve Volunteer Corps (PRVC) by Pennsylvania in 1861 to equip at Commonwealth expense those volunteer regiments that were in excess of the initial Federal quota, and to be held in "reserve", (hence the PRVC label), subject to orders from Governer Curtin. After the losses at the battle of Bull Run & the expiration of the terms of service of the Commonwealth's 3 month's regiments, the PRVC was ordered into Federal service, remaining until their 3 year enlistment expired in June 1864.

Wow, thanks! This does help. I will look at the website now. My uncles Daniel and Elliott Walter were in the 8th and 10th respectively, but I don't have their service records. I only found out because of a picture that was in my grandmothers things, of an old man and a little girl, marked "uncle Dan and Zelma Quigley." We did not even know we had an uncle Dan, and at the time did not know even his last name. Then when I found him (by luck with Zelma his granddaughter living with him) in the 1910 census the computer at Ancestry.com connected him to his service (an index only). This reminded me of something else I heard years ago and I dug out an old e-mail and remembered a cousin had told me that we had a relative named Elliott Walter in the 10th, and so forth. A bit of winter serendipity.

I noticed that Elliott's name is on the monument at Gettysburg, and that the names on it are not a complete list of the men who had been in the company. Would you happen to know if that monument lists only soldiers known to have served there? Thanks so much for the info!
 
Wow, thanks! This does help. I will look at the website now. My uncles Daniel and Elliott Walter were in the 8th and 10th respectively, but I don't have their service records. I only found out because of a picture that was in my grandmothers things, of an old man and a little girl, marked "uncle Dan and Zelma Quigley." We did not even know we had an uncle Dan, and at the time did not know even his last name. Then when I found him (by luck with Zelma his granddaughter living with him) in the 1910 census the computer at Ancestry.com connected him to his service (an index only). This reminded me of something else I heard years ago and I dug out an old e-mail and remembered a cousin had told me that we had a relative named Elliott Walter in the 10th, and so forth. A bit of winter serendipity.

I noticed that Elliott's name is on the monument at Gettysburg, and that the names on it are not a complete list of the men who had been in the company. Would you happen to know if that monument lists only soldiers known to have served there? Thanks so much for the info!

There is a Daniel Walters in Company H. He enlisted on 30 April 1861 for 3 years but was discharged 15 January 1863 due to wounds. There is no mention in the regimental records as to where he was injured, however.

R
 
There is a Daniel Walters in Company H. He enlisted on 30 April 1861 for 3 years but was discharged 15 January 1863 due to wounds. There is no mention in the regimental records as to where he was injured, however.

Thats him. This is the picture that led me to him. As a plug for a website I have criticized on this forum, without Ancestry.com I probably would have been able to identify him in the census but I don't think I could have linked the picture or the census to the 8th PA without the hints in the database. There were a dozen Daniel Walter/Walters up there then, and my grandmother was dead when my cousin let me go through her album, so we couldn't ask her.

BTW I think this picture is adorable and would think so even if the people were unrelated. :angel:

Walters0001.jpg
 
Thats him. This is the picture that led me to him. As a plug for a website I have criticized on this forum, without Ancestry.com I probably would have been able to identify him in the census but I don't think I could have linked the picture or the census to the 8th PA without the hints in the database. There were a dozen Daniel Walter/Walters up there then, and my grandmother was dead when my cousin let me go through her album, so we couldn't ask her.

BTW I think this picture is adorable and would think so even if the people were unrelated. :angel:

View attachment 59762

Do you know at which battle he was wounded?

R
 
Do you know at which battle he was wounded?

No, I don't. I wish I did. And I don't know when his brother Elliott saw action (if any) after he got out of Libby prison. Elliott had been wounded at Gaines Mill and captured, yet his name is on the monument at Gettysburg. He must have healed. If Dan was wounded (or present) at Antietam he would be the first of my people that I am aware of who served there. These two CW uncles just came to my attention last week. When I find out I want to post them on the Pa Reserves site you told me about. All fodder for future inquiry....
 
No, I don't. I wish I did. And I don't know when his brother Elliott saw action (if any) after he got out of Libby prison. Elliott had been wounded at Gaines Mill and captured, yet his name is on the monument at Gettysburg. He must have healed. If Dan was wounded (or present) at Antietam he would be the first of my people that I am aware of who served there. These two CW uncles just came to my attention last week. When I find out I want to post them on the Pa Reserves site you told me about. All fodder for future inquiry....

Depending on the wound, he easily could've been able to return to service once he was exchanged. I had a relative wounded at Gaines Mill but he was back with the regiment by the time of the Second Manassas campaign (less than 2 months).

As for Daniel, if I had to guess, he may have been wounded at Fredericksburg, giving the army a month before determining that he would not be able to return. If it was Antietam, that's an awfully long time before making that determination.

R
 
Al, you are very welcome! It is a fine thing for everyone to share information. I certainly learn as much as I can.
The listing on the tablets was intended to honor men who were present at the battle. It was, of course, very imprecise, owing to the records that were used were often inaccurate, due to various circumstances.
 
There is a Daniel Walters in Company H. He enlisted on 30 April 1861 for 3 years but was discharged 15 January 1863 due to wounds. There is no mention in the regimental records as to where he was injured, however.

R
Re: Dainel Walters Co. "H" - not sure if you're saying he was in the 10th (39th) Pa. Res. or the 8th Pa. - My g.grandfather Patrick J. McGraw was in the 39th/10th Pa. Co. "H" - was between big and little round top at Gettysburg and was wounded in face and arm with finger shot off at Fredericksburg. became Policeman at Titusville and blacksmith in Bradford Pa. Interested in any info you have re: the 39th Pa.
 
thanks for the welcome Captain Drew. One major accomplishment I forgot to mention about my great-grandfather Patrick J McGraw. he was Captain of the Bradford Pennsylvania tug-of-war team LOL must have been the big sport before the Advent of football.
 
Thats him. This is the picture that led me to him. As a plug for a website I have criticized on this forum, without Ancestry.com I probably would have been able to identify him in the census but I don't think I could have linked the picture or the census to the 8th PA without the hints in the database. There were a dozen Daniel Walter/Walters up there then, and my grandmother was dead when my cousin let me go through her album, so we couldn't ask her.

BTW I think this picture is adorable and would think so even if the people were unrelated. :angel:

View attachment 59762
 
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