Restricted ‘Reprehensible’: Lawmaker Calls For Statue Of Abraham Lincoln To Be Taken Down

Scott1967

First Sergeant
Joined
Jul 11, 2016
Location
England
And we don’t need to be racist now, I really don’t understand the problem. Today folks, by and large, don’t want to idiolize those who fought a war against the United States for white supremacy.
I agree , Holding people to the high moral standards of today is a bit silly , What Lincoln did back then he had to do otherwise he would never have been voted into office , While their is no excuse for racism of any sort back in 1861 the view around the world was a white supremist view with a few exceptions.

Statues to individuals will always cause a split opinion in todays society best to get rid of them all and stop erecting them , We live in a multi cultural world any statue is going to cause debate of some sort be that a civil rights leader or a confederate general imho.
 
Joined
Sep 17, 2011
Location
mo
Okay, I got it. I'm talking about the Lincoln Memorial in D.C.. But I get what you're trying to convey.


Okay, you responded to my post initially, I didn't respond to your post. I wasn't trying to figure out anything you said.

I was talking about American Exceptionalism and Patriotism, not Virginia. What does being a great general have to do with American-Exceptionalism? Do you even know what American Exceptionalism is about? I don't think you do. It is what America inherently different from the rest of the world. Like, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, to own private property and democracy. And Lincoln implemented it. Don't know what you are talking about?
Actually you had asked specific questions about confederate monuments which was what I what I had specifically replied to. "Were those Confederate statues built to glorify their great patriotisms and exceptionalism or to celebrate and exaggerated cause? Why were they built?"...............So unless the Lincoln Memorial in DC is now a Confederate statue......its not what you were asking about........

The actual answer would be they were to glorify their great patriotism and exceptionalism. Your question would go to how the supporters who erected the statues indeed viewed themselves, not how you view them.

But since you now raise the issues as examples........isnt suspending Habeus Corpus and using martial law to jail political opposition and newspapers a odd way to promote those things like freedom of speech and democracy? Or using punitive assessments on a populace for actions they did not do, a rather odd promotion of respecting the right to private property? Those type of actions would seem counter of what you refer to as exceptionism. And then there is Natives as well, would you say he respected the Dakota or Navajo right to treaty lands? The questions are germane, if we are to view or examine other figures that have been honored publicly critically......its not as if Lincoln doesn't have issues as well. And that's ignoring moral or character issues like stated views on race, that have been raised as well with other figures.

I certainly have no issue if one wishes to point out any figure that has been put on a pedestal isn't perfect...........but it also then does apply to any figure........
 
Last edited:

lurid

First Sergeant
Joined
Jan 3, 2019
Actually you had asked specific questions about confederate monuments which was what I what I had specifically replied to. "Were those Confederate statues built to glorify their great patriotisms and exceptionalism or to celebrate and exaggerated cause? Why were they built?"...............So unless the Lincoln Memorial in DC is now a Confederate statue......its not what you were asking about........

The actual answer would be they were to glorify their great patriotism and exceptionalism. Your question would go to how the supporters who erected the statues indeed viewed themselves, not how you view them.

But since you now raise the issues as examples........isnt suspending Habeus Corpus and using martial law to jail political opposition and newspapers a odd way to promote those things like freedom of speech and democracy? Or using punitive assessments on a populace for actions they did not do, a rather odd promotion of respecting the right to private property? Those type of actions would seem counter of what you refer to as exceptionism. And then there is Natives as well, would you say he respected the Dakota or Navajo right to treaty lands? The questions are germane, if we are to view or examine other figures that have been honored publicly critically......its not as if Lincoln doesn't have issues as well. And that's ignoring moral or character issues like stated views on race, that have been raised as well with other figures.

I certainly have no issue if one wishes to point out any figure that has been put on a pedestal isn't perfect...........but it also then does apply to any figure........
It was a compare and contrast to Lincoln on civil liberties and advancing the American cause. You never answered it anyway. Edited

Here is what I said in post #11: "As for Lee, I will see if anyone in here can match his American-exceptionalism to Lincoln's. I doubt it. Your follow up questions and statements are leading indicators that you don't understand what American-Exceptionalism is nor do you understand American patriotism.

American-Exceptionalism:1) a heritage of common law; 2) a Christian and predominantly Protestant religious tradition; 3) a free-market economy; and 4) property rights, especially land rights.

In post #11 I introduced what Lincoln did to promote American-exceptionalism. What did Lee or any other Confederate do to promote American-Exceptionalism? The only thing I noticed was they tried to bestow some distorted view of protestant religion on blacks for a self-serving purpose. They interpreted in a eisegesis manner how slave's destiny was to be enslaved and subordinate to white people(paraphrase), which is Manifest Destiny in the highest form.

As for American patriotism, it is not the same as Virginia patriotism. American patriotism is the love for America. Obviously, Virginia patriotisms is love for a state. Back to the founders: Patrick Henry said, "I am not a Virginian but an American." Lee's motto could have been, "I am not an American but a Virginian." The opposite of the founders, and clearly not patriotic to America.


I think you are confusing patriotism with some whacked out jingoism. Jingoism in the form of aggressive and proactive foreign policy, such as a country's advocacy for the use of threats or actual force, as opposed to peaceful relations, in efforts to safeguard what it perceives as its national interests. ​ jingoism is excessive bias in judging one's own country as superior to others – an extreme type of nationalism. Only difference is that Lee applied Jingoism to Virginia, and not to America. All the difference in the world.

I found nothing to indicate Lee or any other Confederate promoted American-Exceptionalism or patriotism from 1860-1865 or after the war. And that is not an opinion but a fact. In post #11 I introduced what Lincoln did to promote American-exceptionalism, so match it.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

GwilymT

Sergeant Major
Joined
Aug 20, 2018
Location
Pittsburgh
It was a compare and contrast to Lincoln on civil liberties and advancing the American cause. You never answered it anyway. Edited

Here is what I said in post #11: "As for Lee, I will see if anyone in here can match his American-exceptionalism to Lincoln's. I doubt it. Your follow up questions and statements are leading indicators that you don't understand what American-Exceptionalism is nor do you understand American patriotism.

American-Exceptionalism:1) a heritage of common law; 2) a Christian and predominantly Protestant religious tradition; 3) a free-market economy; and 4) property rights, especially land rights.

In post #11 I introduced what Lincoln did to promote American-exceptionalism. What did Lee or any other Confederate do to promote American-Exceptionalism? The only thing I noticed was they tried to bestow some distorted view of protestant religion on blacks for a self-serving purpose. They interpreted in a eisegesis manner how slave's destiny was to be enslaved and subordinate to white people(paraphrase), which is Manifest Destiny in the highest form.

As for American patriotism, it is not the same as Virginia patriotism. American patriotism is the love for America. Obviously, Virginia patriotisms is love for a state. Back to the founders: Patrick Henry said, "I am not a Virginian but an American." Lee's motto could have been, "I am not an American but a Virginian." The opposite of the founders, and clearly not patriotic to America.


I think you are confusing patriotism with some whacked out jingoism. Jingoism in the form of aggressive and proactive foreign policy, such as a country's advocacy for the use of threats or actual force, as opposed to peaceful relations, in efforts to safeguard what it perceives as its national interests. ​ jingoism is excessive bias in judging one's own country as superior to others – an extreme type of nationalism. Only difference is that Lee applied Jingoism to Virginia, and not to America. All the difference in the world.

I found nothing to indicate Lee or any other Confederate promoted American-Exceptionalism or patriotism from 1860-1865 or after the war. And that is not an opinion but a fact. In post #11 I introduced what Lincoln did to promote American-exceptionalism, so match it.
I would say that the advancement of American Exceptionalism and the advancement of out country shows that we are no longer bound by your #2. While Protestantism was a main feature of the founding generations we have moved beyond defining ourselves as a Protestant nation.
 

Lost Cause

2nd Lieutenant
Joined
Sep 19, 2014
Okay, I got it. I'm talking about the Lincoln Memorial in D.C.. But I get what you're trying to convey.


Okay, you responded to my post initially, I didn't respond to your post. I wasn't trying to figure out anything you said.

I was talking about American Exceptionalism and Patriotism, not Virginia. What does being a great general have to do with American-Exceptionalism? Do you even know what American Exceptionalism is about? I don't think you do. It is what America inherently different from the rest of the world. Like, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, to own private property and democracy. And Lincoln implemented it. Don't know what you are talking about?
Ironically, Lincoln’s limiting of freedom of speech and press, as well as the suspension of Habeas corpus resulting in over 14,000 arrests are what draws some of his sharpest criticism.

From his own words, " the American people will, by means of military arrests during the rebellion, lose the right of public discussion, the liberty of speech and the press, the law of evidence trial by jury, and Habeas corpus, throughout the indefinite peaceful future . . . any more than I am able to believe that a man could contract so strong an appetite for emetics [medicines] during temporary illness, as to persist in feeding upon them through the remainder of his healthy life."
 

FahanParish

Private
Joined
Apr 4, 2014
Location
Pennsylvania
It was a compare and contrast to Lincoln on civil liberties and advancing the American cause. You never answered it anyway. Edited

Here is what I said in post #11: "As for Lee, I will see if anyone in here can match his American-exceptionalism to Lincoln's. I doubt it. Your follow up questions and statements are leading indicators that you don't understand what American-Exceptionalism is nor do you understand American patriotism.

American-Exceptionalism:1) a heritage of common law; 2) a Christian and predominantly Protestant religious tradition; 3) a free-market economy; and 4) property rights, especially land rights.

In post #11 I introduced what Lincoln did to promote American-exceptionalism. What did Lee or any other Confederate do to promote American-Exceptionalism? The only thing I noticed was they tried to bestow some distorted view of protestant religion on blacks for a self-serving purpose. They interpreted in a eisegesis manner how slave's destiny was to be enslaved and subordinate to white people(paraphrase), which is Manifest Destiny in the highest form.

As for American patriotism, it is not the same as Virginia patriotism. American patriotism is the love for America. Obviously, Virginia patriotisms is love for a state. Back to the founders: Patrick Henry said, "I am not a Virginian but an American." Lee's motto could have been, "I am not an American but a Virginian." The opposite of the founders, and clearly not patriotic to America.


I think you are confusing patriotism with some whacked out jingoism. Jingoism in the form of aggressive and proactive foreign policy, such as a country's advocacy for the use of threats or actual force, as opposed to peaceful relations, in efforts to safeguard what it perceives as its national interests. ​ jingoism is excessive bias in judging one's own country as superior to others – an extreme type of nationalism. Only difference is that Lee applied Jingoism to Virginia, and not to America. All the difference in the world.

I found nothing to indicate Lee or any other Confederate promoted American-Exceptionalism or patriotism from 1860-1865 or after the war. And that is not an opinion but a fact. In post #11 I introduced what Lincoln did to promote American-exceptionalism, so match it.
Joseph Wheeler joined the US Army after the war and participated as a US cavalry officer in Cuba During the Spanish-American War - Longstreet registered as a Republican after the war and made his separate peace - while these are just two - we might be careful when we say no Confederates promoted American Exceptionalism after the war -there are at least two notable examples -
 

Viper21

Brigadier General
Moderator
Silver Patron
Joined
Jul 4, 2016
Location
Rockbridge County, Virginia
Joseph Wheeler joined the US Army after the war and participated as a US cavalry officer in Cuba During the Spanish-American War - Longstreet registered as a Republican after the war and made his separate peace - while these are just two - we might be careful when we say no Confederates promoted American Exceptionalism after the war -there are at least two notable examples -
Don't forget Lee....

Lee arrived in Lexington in mid-September 1865 and went to work immediately. Over the next five years, Washington College grew physically and financially: the faculty increased in size from four to twenty, enrollment grew from fifty to nearly 400 students, and financial contributions poured in from both southern and northern sources. Lee's personal involvement with many of his students reflected his desire to create a new generation of Americans. In response to the bitterness of a Confederate widow, Lee wrote, "Dismiss from your mind all sectional feeling, and bring [your children] up to be Americans."

https://virginiahistory.org/learn/robert-e-lee-after-war
 

lurid

First Sergeant
Joined
Jan 3, 2019
I would say that the advancement of American Exceptionalism and the advancement of out country shows that we are no longer bound by your #2. While Protestantism was a main feature of the founding generations we have moved beyond defining ourselves as a Protestant nation.
I agree, and at least you understand American-Exceptionalism. However, I don't think we were ever bound to protestant religion because look at the first amendment. I was using the protestant reference as what made the US different from other countries back then. It was a huge population of protestants until the Catholics starting migrating here and so on.
 

33Illinois

Cadet
Joined
Aug 20, 2020
I've noticed that nobody who has posted here is within a two hour drive of DC. I live about 30 minutes outside our Nations Capital, (the US territory of the District of Columbia). So many of you may not know the story of this statue or what it represents. Maybe a simple Wikipedia search may help (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emancipation_Memorial).
And relocating this statue is certainly not reprehensible! This statue promotes the myth that Lincoln freed the slaves. He did free the slaves in DC and the northern states. But he did not free the staves of the CSA or even the Federal border states. The 13th, 14th, and 15th Constitutional Amendments accomplished that after Lincoln's death. So why depict a myth in a statue?
Most citizens (and nearly all historians) would say that Lincoln was this country's greatest president. The Lincoln memorial is a shrine to his greatness. IMHO, the Emancipation Statue DETRACTED from his legacy.
If we are going to put a man (or his likeness) on a pedestal (quite literally), we need to examine that man. We need to separate the wheat from the chaff. And this statue is all chaff. So this student of history will not weep a tear to see that statue removed!
 

Viper21

Brigadier General
Moderator
Silver Patron
Joined
Jul 4, 2016
Location
Rockbridge County, Virginia
I've noticed that nobody who has posted here is within a two hour drive of DC. I live about 30 minutes outside our Nations Capital, (the US territory of the District of Columbia). So many of you may not know the story of this statue or what it represents. Maybe a simple Wikipedia search may help (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emancipation_Memorial).
And relocating this statue is certainly not reprehensible! This statue promotes the myth that Lincoln freed the slaves. He did free the slaves in DC and the northern states. But he did not free the staves of the CSA or even the Federal border states. The 13th, 14th, and 15th Constitutional Amendments accomplished that after Lincoln's death. So why depict a myth in a statue?
Most citizens (and nearly all historians) would say that Lincoln was this country's greatest president. The Lincoln memorial is a shrine to his greatness. IMHO, the Emancipation Statue DETRACTED from his legacy.
If we are going to put a man (or his likeness) on a pedestal (quite literally), we need to examine that man. We need to separate the wheat from the chaff. And this statue is all chaff. So this student of history will not weep a tear to see that statue removed!
Let me get this straight...... a statue to Lincoln, about freeing slaves, located in Washington DC, a city where he actually freed slaves, shouldn't be there..? :O o:

Oh... & ...according to the park service, it was paid for, solely by former slaves. Wow.

fwiw, I grew up less than 30 minutes from DC, now live roughly 3 hrs away, & have seen this statue in person. If it was up to me, I wouldn't touch it.
 

33Illinois

Cadet
Joined
Aug 20, 2020
Permit me to speak candidly...

I suppose, if you follow my ancestors back, you may find a slaveholder or two (although I have traced back to 4G grandparents on all sides and found none). I have reenacted since the 125th Anniversary of Bull Run. Civil War history is my passion. And no aspect of my library challenges my books on Lincoln. He was a fascinatingly complex person.

And yes, former slaves paid for the statue. They felt indebted to the sacrifices (including the ultimate sacrifice) that Lincoln made. This is clear.

But what does that statue say to us today? What message does it have for us, many generations later? I am suggesting that the original message no longer speaks to our society. What is reprehensible, IMHO, is that people today, descendants of those slaves, should be indebted to Abraham Lincoln. The words in the Lincoln Memorial got it right. This statue's time has long passed!
 

Scott1967

First Sergeant
Joined
Jul 11, 2016
Location
England
But what does that statue say to us today? What message does it have for us, many generations later? I am suggesting that the original message no longer speaks to our society. What is reprehensible, IMHO, is that people today, descendants of those slaves, should be indebted to Abraham Lincoln. The words in the Lincoln Memorial got it right. This statue's time has long passed!
Lincoln freed the slaves as part of the war up to that point he was prepared to leave slavery alone as long as it didn't expand into new states , I find it quite amusing personally that people think Lincoln was an enlightened thinker this great saviour of the blacks when in fact he was nothing of the sort.

Lincoln was the most American of people but lets not portray him as the great liberator everything he did had a purpose and reasoning and freeing the slaves was done solely because it brought America in line with Europe and hurt the Confederacy in the pocket , Im sure he disliked slavery but he wasn't the only one that abolished it.
 

Viper21

Brigadier General
Moderator
Silver Patron
Joined
Jul 4, 2016
Location
Rockbridge County, Virginia
But what does that statue say to us today? What message does it have for us, many generations later? I am suggesting that the original message no longer speaks to our society. What is reprehensible, IMHO, is that people today, descendants of those slaves, should be indebted to Abraham Lincoln. The words in the Lincoln Memorial got it right. This statue's time has long passed!
That view, which admittedly is growing, is what will ultimately bring down the big 3 in Wash DC.

It is much easier to ignore, or disregard where we come from, when there are no visual reminders, or memorials. My interest in this period was stimulated, & or sparked by seeing monuments, memorials, street names, etc... as a kid. Wow, who were these people..? As I got older & more worldly, I realized just how expensive, & difficult to raise things like monuments are/were. Especially the ones raised with private funding.

It will be a shame as more & more get removed because future generations' narcissism overrides the lessons, & historical value of honoring those who came before them.
 

Andersonh1

Brigadier General
Moderator
Joined
Jan 12, 2016
Location
South Carolina
I agree , Holding people to the high moral standards of today is a bit silly ,

I would question some of today's "high moral standards", but I won't be specific and go into modern politics and issues. Suffice it to say, there's a lot of self-righteousness judgment directed at historical figures from people who really don't have the moral high ground at all.
 

33Illinois

Cadet
Joined
Aug 20, 2020
We all agree that you can't hold people from the past to our modern values. I certainly don't want to be judged by someone (centuries from now) based on their values!

I remember feeling very uncomfortable in the Federal reenactment camp at a minstrel show. Values and social norms change. We must find a way to honor our ancestors while recognizing that some aspects of their lives are foreign (or even deplorable) to ours.
 
Joined
Sep 17, 2011
Location
mo
Permit me to speak candidly...

I suppose, if you follow my ancestors back, you may find a slaveholder or two (although I have traced back to 4G grandparents on all sides and found none). I have reenacted since the 125th Anniversary of Bull Run. Civil War history is my passion. And no aspect of my library challenges my books on Lincoln. He was a fascinatingly complex person.

And yes, former slaves paid for the statue. They felt indebted to the sacrifices (including the ultimate sacrifice) that Lincoln made. This is clear.

But what does that statue say to us today? What message does it have for us, many generations later? I am suggesting that the original message no longer speaks to our society. What is reprehensible, IMHO, is that people today, descendants of those slaves, should be indebted to Abraham Lincoln. The words in the Lincoln Memorial got it right. This statue's time has long passed!
Honestly your argument seems strange to me.

You seemingly want to give no credit for the 13th amendment to Lincoln because he was assassinated before it was ratified? Certainly as president he pushed and arm twisted to get it done and deserves much credit for it. If a nation is grateful for the ending of slavery, they would be indebted to him for indeed working so hard to make it so. Just if one is grateful for our Constitution and freedoms they would be indebted to the founders.
 

Scott1967

First Sergeant
Joined
Jul 11, 2016
Location
England
Honestly your argument seems strange to me.

You seemingly want to give no credit for the 13th amendment to Lincoln because he was assassinated before it was ratified? Certainly as president he pushed and arm twisted to get it done and deserves much credit for it. If a nation is grateful for the ending of slavery, they would be indebted to him for indeed working so hard to make it so. Just if one is grateful for our Constitution and freedoms they would be indebted to the founders.
Its not strange at all , Are you saying every Black person should be in debited to Lincoln? Their was thousands of others who worked hard to abolish slavery the British abolished it 30 years before Lincoln and stopped the Slave trade completely , William Wilberforce certainly did more than any man in the world to stop slavery not some president who wanted to appease slave holders in 1861.

The constitution isn't worth the paper its written on it was to ensure the top 10% of land owning gentleman didn't lose out imho the words equality and liberty only applied to those gentleman.

It says a lot when Native Americans and Black people preferred a colonial power like Great Britain to its freedom loving all men are equal colonials in both 1776 and 1812 but I'm not sure that is taught in American schools as the British are the bad guys nothing is said of the anti slavery movement before 1776 or the fact that the trans Atlantic slave trade had been abolished 4 years before the war of 1812.

American's celebrating the fact they abolished slavery with a statue of Lincoln a man who did not want to abolish slavery in 1861 is quite pathetic really , Celebrate him for keeping the Union together because that's what he should be known for imho.
 

BuckeyeWarrior

Sergeant
Joined
Jan 1, 2020
Location
Ohio
It was a compare and contrast to Lincoln on civil liberties and advancing the American cause. You never answered it anyway. Edited

Here is what I said in post #11: "As for Lee, I will see if anyone in here can match his American-exceptionalism to Lincoln's. I doubt it. Your follow up questions and statements are leading indicators that you don't understand what American-Exceptionalism is nor do you understand American patriotism.

American-Exceptionalism:1) a heritage of common law; 2) a Christian and predominantly Protestant religious tradition; 3) a free-market economy; and 4) property rights, especially land rights.

In post #11 I introduced what Lincoln did to promote American-exceptionalism. What did Lee or any other Confederate do to promote American-Exceptionalism? The only thing I noticed was they tried to bestow some distorted view of protestant religion on blacks for a self-serving purpose. They interpreted in a eisegesis manner how slave's destiny was to be enslaved and subordinate to white people(paraphrase), which is Manifest Destiny in the highest form.

As for American patriotism, it is not the same as Virginia patriotism. American patriotism is the love for America. Obviously, Virginia patriotisms is love for a state. Back to the founders: Patrick Henry said, "I am not a Virginian but an American." Lee's motto could have been, "I am not an American but a Virginian." The opposite of the founders, and clearly not patriotic to America.


I think you are confusing patriotism with some whacked out jingoism. Jingoism in the form of aggressive and proactive foreign policy, such as a country's advocacy for the use of threats or actual force, as opposed to peaceful relations, in efforts to safeguard what it perceives as its national interests. ​ jingoism is excessive bias in judging one's own country as superior to others – an extreme type of nationalism. Only difference is that Lee applied Jingoism to Virginia, and not to America. All the difference in the world.

I found nothing to indicate Lee or any other Confederate promoted American-Exceptionalism or patriotism from 1860-1865 or after the war. And that is not an opinion but a fact. In post #11 I introduced what Lincoln did to promote American-exceptionalism, so match it.
Lee, and the rest of the southern rebels, rejected George Washington's advice in his farewell address. This is another reason I see the southern rebellion as the anti-American revolution.

"For this you have every inducement of sympathy and interest. Citizens, by birth or choice, of a common country, that country has a right to concentrate your affections. The name of American, which belongs to you in your national capacity, must always exalt the just pride of patriotism more than any appellation derived from local discriminations. With slight shades of difference, you have the same religion, manners, habits, and political principles. You have in a common cause fought and triumphed together; the independence and liberty you possess are the work of joint counsels, and joint efforts of common dangers, sufferings, and successes." George Washington's farewell address 19 Sep 1796
 
Joined
Sep 17, 2011
Location
mo
Its not strange at all , Are you saying every Black person should be in debited to Lincoln? Their was thousands of others who worked hard to abolish slavery the British abolished it 30 years before Lincoln and stopped the Slave trade completely , William Wilberforce certainly did more than any man in the world to stop slavery not some president who wanted to appease slave holders in 1861.

The constitution isn't worth the paper its written on it was to ensure the top 10% of land owning gentleman didn't lose out imho the words equality and liberty only applied to those gentleman.

It says a lot when Native Americans and Black people preferred a colonial power like Great Britain to its freedom loving all men are equal colonials in both 1776 and 1812 but I'm not sure that is taught in American schools as the British are the bad guys nothing is said of the anti slavery movement before 1776 or the fact that the trans Atlantic slave trade had been abolished 4 years before the war of 1812.

American's celebrating the fact they abolished slavery with a statue of Lincoln a man who did not want to abolish slavery in 1861 is quite pathetic really , Celebrate him for keeping the Union together because that's what he should be known for imho.
No every American should be indebted to Lincoln if they are grateful for the ending of slavery, that has nothing to do with race. Both Blacks and Natives historically fought against Great Britain which suggests little love.

But since you seem to attach race to everything, anti slavery and civil rights is certainly the history of white people, that should be accurately reflected. What race was your Wilberforce and the Parliament that ended the slave trade? Imagine its the same as the Congress that passed the 13th amendment, and the President who signed it.

Curious if your racial prism also includes only black Britains should be indebted to Wilberforce or all Britains?
 
Last edited:

Scott1967

First Sergeant
Joined
Jul 11, 2016
Location
England
No every American should be indebted to Lincoln if they are grateful for the ending of slavery, that has nothing to do with race. Both Blacks and Natives historically fought against Great Britain which suggests little love.

But since you seem to attach race to everything, anti slavery and civil rights is certainly the history of white people, that should be accurately reflected. What race was your Wilberforce and the Parliament that ended the slave trade? Imagine its the same as the Congress that passed the 13th amendment, and the President who signed it.

Curious if your racial prism also includes only black Britains should be indebted to Wilberforce or all Britains?
Its not the same slavery had virtually died out in the West by the time Lincoln got into power which was due to British sea power and moral guilt of the British people and against the will of most of the major powers.

Britain also paid out nearly 300 billion dollars in compensation which it only stop paying a few years back , How much did the US pay in compensation?.

It could be argued or debated that Lincoln enacted the emancipation proclamation in order to save the treasury a boat load of money after all the slave states who were part of the confederacy wouldn't have to be compensated at all , In fact if the US paid compensation today it would result in over 20 Trillion dollars in reparations.

In fact after the war the only money a slave could receive was $100 for leaving the US.

Please do not compare Wilberforce with Lincoln one stopped the Atlantic Slave trade and made the super power of the age pay-out billions in compensation and the other appeased slave holders and only freed the slaves out of necessity.
 
Top