Restricted ‘Reprehensible’: Lawmaker Calls For Statue Of Abraham Lincoln To Be Taken Down

Pete Longstreet

2nd Lieutenant
Forum Host
Silver Patron
Joined
Mar 3, 2020
Location
Hartford, CT
Sounds like this guy is talking out both sides of his mouth.

From the article: Lovasco told the Daily Caller he is not “officially calling for the statue to be removed” and that his comment was “mostly sarcastic.”

Yet he continues to say Lincoln was "no hero". When it comes to politics today, it almost seems like it's a game of who can scream the loudest to boost themselves into the limelight. Then it becomes who can top the other one with more crazy radical ideals. Not saying Lincoln was perfect. But no one is... and I'm sure Mr. Lovasco is not either.
 
Joined
Sep 17, 2011
Location
mo
Hardly seems a call as its merely a sarcastic tweet, is interesting the poll with the story is yet another https://morningconsult.com/2021/07/14/confederate-statues-flag-military-bases-polling/ shows the public opposed to removals however.

If anything was reprehensible it would seem the spin of the reporting. As a political call for action from a legislator, is introducing bills not tweets...........wonder her reaction to actual serious calls and actual removals of monuments to Lincoln like the emancipation memorial being removed.........
 
Last edited:

Pete Longstreet

2nd Lieutenant
Forum Host
Silver Patron
Joined
Mar 3, 2020
Location
Hartford, CT
Any one giving odds on the Lincoln Memorial being torn down?

And apparently the man discussing such thinks both Lee and Lincoln statues should come down because, in his view, they were equally 'bad.'

It must be great to straddle the political fence and give support to both sides of any debate. :whistling:
At this point in time... anything is possible the way things are going. Funny how after all these years... NOW Lincoln and others were bad men. I feel everyone is just running scared and if you condemn one of the "evil white men" who lived 150 years ago... your given a pass. I think it's ridiculous. Like I've stated previously, Lincoln was not perfect, but he did more for this nation than Mr. Lovasco or any other current politician would ever dream of.
 
Joined
Sep 17, 2011
Location
mo
That seems to me what Mr Lovasco was pointing out, even if sarcasticly.

Rather like three time Lincoln prize winner Allen Guelzo said of Illinois removing Stephen Douglas statue, that then Lincoln's should follow. As indeed they both had racist views of the period.
 

Scott1967

First Sergeant
Joined
Jul 11, 2016
Location
England
That seems to me what Mr Lovasco was pointing out, even if sarcasticly.

Rather like three time Lincoln prize winner Allen Guelzo said of Illinois removing Stephen Douglas statue, that then Lincoln's should follow. As indeed they both had racist views of the period.
Virtually everyone was racist in that time period it was the common norm you don't need a degree in history to figure that one out.

Again statues to individuals cause controversy why am I not surprised.
 
Joined
Sep 17, 2011
Location
mo
Virtually everyone was racist in that time period it was the common norm you don't need a degree in history to figure that one out.

Again statues to individuals cause controversy why am I not surprised.
I agree, the only "controversy" to me is selectively calling out select individuals of the period for the racism that was commonplace...........then suggesting it's "reprehensible" to point out others shared the same racism of the period.
 
Joined
Jan 28, 2021
And who would have ever thought the Eyes of Texas song would MIGHT be on its way out om Austin. There are 2 marching bands at FB games- for members that do and for members that dont want to play the song. The basketball team is considering not including it as part of their games.

So, Lincoln, Grant, Sherman, Andrew Jackson and others are not out of bounds when it comes to cultural cleansing (i..e Teddy Roosevelt and STpehen Foster haver already felt the wrath)
 

lurid

First Sergeant
Joined
Jan 3, 2019
Any one giving odds on the Lincoln Memorial being torn down?

And apparently the man discussing such thinks both Lee and Lincoln statues should come down because, in his view, they were equally 'bad.'

It must be great to straddle the political fence and give support to both sides of any debate. :whistling:

About 10,000-1. Well, ignorance might be bliss in some circles but historically it just means you're obtuse. In American history, Abraham Lincoln is an icon and is above reproach when comes to American-exceptionalism. I would describe Lincoln as a philosophical blend of John Locke and Edmund Burke. Like Burke, he revered the past (a conservative trait), especially America’s Founding Fathers. He wanted to preserve and expand their legacy. This led him to Locke, whose classical liberalism and belief in the right to life, liberty, and property greatly influenced the American Revolution. This blend of Locke and Burke led to Lincoln wanting to preserve the Union and expand freedom by ending slavery, which he saw (correctly) as the long-term intention of the Founders.

Also, I would also describe Lincoln as blending Thomas Jefferson’s rhetoric with Alexander Hamilton’s political platform. Lincoln’s words, such as his Gettysburg Address, built on Jefferson’s Declaration of Independence and the creed that “all men are created equal.” But most of Lincoln’s platform, such as using tariffs to promote corporate and banking interests, building “internal improvements” (infrastructure) and ending slavery, was taken right out of Hamilton’s playbook. I personally believe next to Washington Lincoln is the greatest American that ever lived.

As for Lee, I will see if anyone in here can match his American-exceptionalism to Lincoln's. I doubt it. I'll refrain from cutting Lee to pieces until someone comes in here and gives us an idea on how great of an American he "supposedly" was or wasn't. Even prior to the Civil War I find it difficult to find where Lee was a great American. He was a military man. So what? I was in and I dig all the guts, bullets', fighting and corps de spirt but that proves nothing.

As for history, those Confederate monuments were built during the Jim Crow era, to oppose racial equality. That is not American history, that is Lost Cause history. We all know the Confederates were apart of American history, but were they protagonists or agonists? Were those Confederate statues built to glorify their great patriotisms and exceptionalism or to celebrate and exaggerated cause? Why were they built? Whatever, people who think they know and understand history should never think Abraham Lincoln is in the same category.
 
Joined
Sep 17, 2011
Location
mo
Were those Confederate statues built to glorify their great patriotisms and exceptionalism or to celebrate and exaggerated cause?
That seems the question, and would think if anyone is being honest they would admit there is honestly differing views.

The former Confederates had certainly exhibited great patriotism and exceptionalism to what they had believed right, and personally think its absurd to suggest they didn't want that reflected. Whether there was some more sinister unsaid message, would seem far less clear, if it's admittedly unsaid.
 

lurid

First Sergeant
Joined
Jan 3, 2019
That seems the question, and would think if anyone is being honest they would admit there is honestly differing views.

The former Confederates had certainly exhibited great patriotism and exceptionalism to what they had believed right, and personally think its absurd to suggest they didn't want that reflected. Whether there was some more sinister unsaid message, would seem far less clear, if it's admittedly unsaid.

I'm talking about American exceptionalism and patriotism, not what they believed in. Don't presume anything. Do a comparison of Lincoln to Lee about American exceptionalism and patriotisms, not what they thought patriotisms was or believed. Again, the topic is American exceptionalism and patriotisms. Do I need to give you the textbook definitions?
 
Last edited:

GwilymT

Sergeant Major
Joined
Aug 20, 2018
Location
Pittsburgh
Virtually everyone was racist in that time period it was the common norm you don't need a degree in history to figure that one out.

Again statues to individuals cause controversy why am I not surprised.
And we don’t need to be racist now, I really don’t understand the problem. Today folks, by and large, don’t want to idiolize those who fought a war against the United States for white supremacy.
 

Pete Longstreet

2nd Lieutenant
Forum Host
Silver Patron
Joined
Mar 3, 2020
Location
Hartford, CT
About 10,000-1. Well, ignorance might be bliss in some circles but historically it just means you're obtuse. In American history, Abraham Lincoln is an icon and is above reproach when comes to American-exceptionalism. I would describe Lincoln as a philosophical blend of John Locke and Edmund Burke. Like Burke, he revered the past (a conservative trait), especially America’s Founding Fathers. He wanted to preserve and expand their legacy. This led him to Locke, whose classical liberalism and belief in the right to life, liberty, and property greatly influenced the American Revolution. This blend of Locke and Burke led to Lincoln wanting to preserve the Union and expand freedom by ending slavery, which he saw (correctly) as the long-term intention of the Founders.

Also, I would also describe Lincoln as blending Thomas Jefferson’s rhetoric with Alexander Hamilton’s political platform. Lincoln’s words, such as his Gettysburg Address, built on Jefferson’s Declaration of Independence and the creed that “all men are created equal.” But most of Lincoln’s platform, such as using tariffs to promote corporate and banking interests, building “internal improvements” (infrastructure) and ending slavery, was taken right out of Hamilton’s playbook. I personally believe next to Washington Lincoln is the greatest American that ever lived.
A few months ago I would have absolutely agreed with your 10,000-1 prediction. Protesters tore down a Lincoln statue in Portland. Then a Lincoln statue was removed in Boston. So in today's climate... anything is possible. I truly thought Lincoln was untouchable. That never would there be any controversy around any Lincoln monuments/statues. I was obviously wrong. Now you have people like this politician adding fuel to the fire. I think with many of these monuments... it's lack of education. People want to immediately vilify Lincoln for anything he did that is looked upon as a negative in today's society. But they fail to recognize what he accomplished... especially during the the time frame for which he lived. He was an American through and through. I agree with your assessment of him. You mention his writing... Foote said Lincoln's ability as a writer is knocking on the door of Mark Twain.
 
Joined
Jan 28, 2021
About 10,000-1. Well, ignorance might be bliss in some circles but historically it just means you're obtuse. In American history, Abraham Lincoln is an icon and is above reproach when comes to American-exceptionalism. I would describe Lincoln as a philosophical blend of John Locke and Edmund Burke. Like Burke, he revered the past (a conservative trait), especially America’s Founding Fathers. He wanted to preserve and expand their legacy. This led him to Locke, whose classical liberalism and belief in the right to life, liberty, and property greatly influenced the American Revolution. This blend of Locke and Burke led to Lincoln wanting to preserve the Union and expand freedom by ending slavery, which he saw (correctly) as the long-term intention of the Founders.

Also, I would also describe Lincoln as blending Thomas Jefferson’s rhetoric with Alexander Hamilton’s political platform. Lincoln’s words, such as his Gettysburg Address, built on Jefferson’s Declaration of Independence and the creed that “all men are created equal.” But most of Lincoln’s platform, such as using tariffs to promote corporate and banking interests, building “internal improvements” (infrastructure) and ending slavery, was taken right out of Hamilton’s playbook. I personally believe next to Washington Lincoln is the greatest American that ever lived.

As for Lee, I will see if anyone in here can match his American-exceptionalism to Lincoln's. I doubt it. I'll refrain from cutting Lee to pieces until someone comes in here and gives us an idea on how great of an American he "supposedly" was or wasn't. Even prior to the Civil War I find it difficult to find where Lee was a great American. He was a military man. So what? I was in and I dig all the guts, bullets', fighting and corps de spirt but that proves nothing.

As for history, those Confederate monuments were built during the Jim Crow era, to oppose racial equality. That is not American history, that is Lost Cause history. We all know the Confederates were apart of American history, but were they protagonists or agonists? Were those Confederate statues built to glorify their great patriotisms and exceptionalism or to celebrate and exaggerated cause? Why were they built? Whatever, people who think they know and understand history should never think Abraham Lincoln is in the same category.
What were the years of the Jim Crow Era?
1865 to 2000?
1917 to 1954?
1776 to 1965?
Were the monuments to Confederates erected at national battlefields during the Jim Crow Era(?) done to oppose racial equality?
 

lurid

First Sergeant
Joined
Jan 3, 2019
A few months ago I would have absolutely agreed with your 10,000-1 prediction. Protesters tore down a Lincoln statue in Portland. Then a Lincoln statue was removed in Boston. So in today's climate... anything is possible. I truly thought Lincoln was untouchable. That never would there be any controversy around any Lincoln monuments/statues. I was obviously wrong. Now you have people like this politician adding fuel to the fire. I think with many of these monuments... it's lack of education. People want to immediately vilify Lincoln for anything he did that is looked upon as a negative in today's society. But they fail to recognize what he accomplished... especially during the the time frame for which he lived. He was an American through and through. I agree with your assessment of him. You mention his writing... Foote said Lincoln's ability as a writer is knocking on the door of Mark Twain.

I was talking about the Lincoln Memorial. Okay, vandals damaged Lincoln statues in Boston and Portland, it is hard to stop vandals sometimes. I am talking about a referendum to get the Lincoln memorial removed. Never. Not ever. Anyway, Lincoln was a erudite, a self educated man with a vast array of common knowledge. The most intelligent people I knew were book smart and had street smarts, and Lincoln fits the mould.
 

Pete Longstreet

2nd Lieutenant
Forum Host
Silver Patron
Joined
Mar 3, 2020
Location
Hartford, CT
I was talking about the Lincoln Memorial. Okay, vandals damaged Lincoln statues in Boston and Portland, it is hard to stop vandals sometimes. I am talking about a referendum to get the Lincoln memorial removed. Never. Not ever. Anyway, Lincoln was a erudite, a self educated man with a vast array of common knowledge. The most intelligent people I knew were book smart and had street smarts, and Lincoln fits the mould.
This Lincoln statue was removed by the City of Boston. The one in Portland was vandalized. This one was taken down.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.metrowestdailynews.com/amp/4073965001
 
Joined
Sep 17, 2011
Location
mo
I'm talking about American exceptionalism and patriotism, not what they believed in. Don't presume anything. Do a comparison of Lincoln to Lee about American exceptionalism and patriotisms, not what they thought patriotisms was or believed. Again, the topic is American exceptionalism and patriotisms. Do I need to give you the textbook definitions?
No it was referring to Virginia state monument to Lee, if you wish to clarify you think it was erected to American patriotism and exceptionialism it's noted.

As I said I would imagine it was erected to memorialize patriotism to Commonwealth of Virginia and military exceptionialism, but I suppose I have no issue if you wish to attach "American" to it, as it was indeed erected by Americans. Lee is as well often on lists of America's greatest generals, which would certainly go to American exceptionalism.
 

lurid

First Sergeant
Joined
Jan 3, 2019
This Lincoln statue was removed by the City of Boston. The one in Portland was vandalized. This one was taken down.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.metrowestdailynews.com/amp/4073965001

Okay, I got it. I'm talking about the Lincoln Memorial in D.C.. But I get what you're trying to convey.
No it was referring to Virginia state monument to Lee, if you wish to clarify you think it was erected to American patriotism and exceptionialism it's noted.

As I said I would imagine it was erected to memorialize patriotism to Commonwealth of Virginia and military exceptionialism, but I suppose I have no issue if you wish to attach "American" to it, as it was indeed erected by Americans. Lee is as well often on lists of America's greatest generals, which would certainly go to American exceptionalism.

Okay, you responded to my post initially, I didn't respond to your post. I wasn't trying to figure out anything you said.

I was talking about American Exceptionalism and Patriotism, not Virginia. What does being a great general have to do with American-Exceptionalism? Do you even know what American Exceptionalism is about? I don't think you do. It is what America inherently different from the rest of the world. Like, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, to own private property and democracy. And Lincoln implemented it. Don't know what you are talking about?
 
Top