The Heritage and the Legacy of the Confederate South

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TheSecretSix

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Everyone talks about the heritage of the Confederate South. But what is this heritage? What did the Confederate South actually leave us? We who are left here in this part of the country... We the people who are descended from those people who seceded, and who left the Union forever. What did the people who were living in the nation known as the Confederate South actually leave to us by their secession from the union?

After the war, these people did not say much of anything. There was a situation known as the Silent South in the which Confederate veterans and their families refused to discuss anything that happened during that time period.

Southerners to this day are eternally slighted by Hollywood, completely despised by the official historians who make them all out to be some sort of racist monsters of intolerance, and have encouraged a multitude of contemporary disdain for anything having to do with their 'lost' cause.

The symbols of the Confederate South are eternally heralded as absolute symbols of racism even though men like HK Edgerton on Facebook and his black Confederate 'flagger' friends insist otherwise, the symbol is internally seen as being one of blatant racism. At no time is it seen as what it truly is; a symbol against the collectivism of the American political party system of its day. The politics are never mentioned, never allowed to be mentioned, and are officially and completely ignored.

Even though there was never any stated law condemning the act of unilateral secession, and any condemnation of the Confederate South must be pieced together from after-action SCOTUS 'opinions'
and militia acts which were originally designed for completely different purposes, as well as implications and other vague remembrances, there was never any amendment to the Constitution passed giving the general government the right to invade a state in order to bring it back into the Union. And, to this day, there still does not exist such as a thing. It all basically falls under Alexander Hamilton's implied nonsense; this reading between the lines to suit the present purpose insanity.

Yet there does exist one thing, and this thing seems to be the most powerful force of all. There seems to be this undying and unmitigated hatred for the Confederate South and its active secession from the union to the embarrassment of the sectional president Abraham Lincoln. in truth, this hatred comes off as looking absolutely ridiculous from the viewpoint of a neutral outsider, yet this does seem to be the intended purpose of those people who lost the civil war; for none of those people wanted to go under minority rule, none of them wish to give up their political power in their own state to a group of freed slaves who were being convinced that their freedom had come from the northern invasion rather than from where it had truly come from; the South seceding from the union in the first instance, and condemning slavery as an art form in North America forever. No Southerner wanted to live under a federal top heavy United States of America, especially if it was to be run like the northern states ran their own governments up there. True there were southern 'unionist' sellouts, but those who were called True Confederates believed completely in the Jeffersonian agrarian ideal.

So what did these people leave us?

They left us one thing; they left us the fact that they had existed; that they had done what they had done for the reasons that they actually did these things, and that they did not care in the least what the North ever thought of them. They did not mind to be thought of as traitors, nor as criminals. They fought and they died trying to keep their country as they envisioned. And they would have their country, or else they would disappear in the process. And they chose to disappear.

In their silence, they did not expect us to believe as they did. They actually said nothing at all about any of it, and only spoke in their diaries and in their letters about the actual events as they knew them to be. the Confederate president indeed offer his apologia in The Rise and Fall of the Confederate Government, but an apologia is not an apology; it is a defense of one's opinions or conduct. The rest of the South offers no such thing, nor did it care to offer any such. The South never surrendered. Appomattox was the surrender of Lee and the 8,000; not of the Confederacy. The Confederate South never surrendered; it chose to be destroyed, instead.

The flag still exists. Like unilateral secession, the present-day government has neither the will nor the right to ban the flag in a law, or an amendment, like some sort of a swastika of racism. Those of such a political nature are completely disappointed time and again when they attempt to remove the symbol from consideration.

The important thing is that the South seceded from the union; anything else is a mere footnote to that event.

I did not know what the South had left us until I went to my first Civil War reenactment, and I drove to that side of the field where the big Confederate flags were flying impudently in the wind. It is quite a rush for a Southern person to stand there and see those flags, and indeed, that flag in particular... beating against the breeze.

The Betsy Ross flag must have surely felt the same way in the sight of those patriots of the Spirit of '76 of whom Thomas Jefferson ever mentioned with the greatest reverence. There is something thrilling about being completely despised, and yet feeling in your heart that you are, when it all shakes out, on the side of right as you see it.

It is a thrill that no one but a Southerner would understand, and it is worth all of the vitriolic venom and rage for the honor of standing in its shadow.
 
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I guess I don't understand the question, but I will say that the ideals of the South in the 1860's, do not conform to the ideals of society today. I am interested in the study of the times of the American Civil War and do not expect the values of that time to be relevant today. If we held on to the values of the past, we would be attending gladiator battles instead of football games.
 
Everyone talks about the heritage of the Confederate South. But what is this heritage? What did the Confederate South actually leave us? We who are left here in this part of the country... We the people who are descended from those people who seceded, and who left the Union forever. What did the people who were living in the nation known as the Confederate South actually leave to us by their secession from the union?

ONE: Let's make it clear to everyone you are speaking for yourself and not for the entire South, Confederate or otherwise. And as much as this might pain you, not everyone talks about the heritage of the Confederate South nor wonders at what was it's heritage.

After the war, these people did not say much of anything. There was a situation known as the Silent South in the which Confederate veterans and their families refused to discuss anything that happened during that time period.

An odd point-of-view since almost immediately after the Civil War, articles and books were printed and published that gave the 'Lost Cause' version of the war. Those views were even debated in the US Congress and recorded in the records of that political body.

Southerners to this day are eternally slighted by Hollywood, completely despised by the official historians who make them all out to be some sort of racist monsters of intolerance, and have encouraged a multitude of contemporary disdain for anything having to do with their 'lost' cause.

Charles Adams, Thomas DiLorenzo, etc., those poor folks who defend their version of the Lost Cause and make money off the books they sell to the faithful. How terrible that they are labeled so!

The symbols of the Confederate South are eternally heralded as absolute symbols of racism even though men like HK Edgerton on Facebook and his black Confederate 'flagger' friends insist otherwise, the symbol is internally seen as being one of blatant racism.

One former disgraced NAACP member does not an excuse make for the CBF being surrendered in silence to hate groups (KKK, Stormfront, etc.) by those who claim Confederate heritage as their cause.

At no time is it seen as what it truly is; a symbol against the collectivism of the American political party system of its day. The politics are never mentioned, never allowed to be mentioned, and are officially and completely ignored.

Absolutely untrue. A reading of those who created that symbol have left a very well documented record of what the symbol truly represented. It even mentions the politics that officially were stated, over and over again, that this symbol represented at that time.

Even though there was never any stated law condemning the act of unilateral secession, and any condemnation of the Confederate South must be pieced together from after-action SCOTUS 'opinions'
and militia acts which were originally designed for completely different purposes, as well as implications and other vague remembrances, there was never any amendment to the Constitution passed giving the general government the right to invade a state in order to bring it back into the Union. And, to this day, there still does not exist such as a thing. It all basically falls under Alexander Hamilton's implied nonsense; this reading between the lines to suit the present purpose insanity.

Take a breath, cheerleader, and try reading history vice making up fantasy. Just read the declarations of secession, read South Carolina's secession convention, for heaven's sake, just read some actual history!

Yet there does exist one thing, and this thing seems to be the most powerful force of all. There seems to be this undying and unmitigated hatred for the Confederate South and its active secession from the union to the embarrassment of the sectional president Abraham Lincoln.

I seriously doubt if the majority of US citizens in the South of this time are aware of any "undying and unmitigate hatred for the Confederate South or any of the other nonsense you mention above. It seems only 'true believers' of this fairy tale ever seem to need to feel something that is "unmitigated."

in truth, this hatred comes off as looking absolutely ridiculous from the viewpoint of a neutral outsider, yet this does seem to be the intended purpose of those people who lost the civil war; for none of those people wanted to go under minority rule, none of them wish to give up their political power in their own state to a group of freed slaves who were being convinced that their freedom had come from the northern invasion rather than from where it had truly come from; the South seceding from the union in the first instance, and condemning slavery as an art form in North America forever.

What is absolutely ridiculous from anyone's viewpoint is your continuing personal opinion in fantasy, slight-of-hand, and your continued preaching of a history and causes that NEVER happened. Not to mention overly long sentences of bunkem.

No Southerner wanted to live under a federal top heavy United States of America, especially if it was to be run like the northern states ran their own governments up there.

No slaveholder wanted to give up nearly 70 continous control of the federal government, who had pretty much had their own way when it came to calling the shots about the institution of slavery.

True there were southern 'unionist' sellouts, but those who were called True Confederates believed completely in the Jeffersonian agrarian ideal.

Yep, nearly four million souls who upheld that "agraian ideal" by way of their slave labor.

So what did these people leave us?

One of the worst ideas ever concieved in the history of the United States.

They left us one thing; they left us the fact that they had existed; that they had done what they had done for the reasons that they actually did these things, and that they did not care in the least what the North ever thought of them.

On this, we can flat-out agree on. No peaceful solution, straight to violence with no court, no constitutional attempts at solutions and reputiating a free and fair election. They did not care in the least.

They did not mind to be thought of as traitors, nor as criminals. They fought and they died trying to keep their country as they envisioned.

Agreed.

And they would have their country, or else they would disappear in the process. And they chose to disappear.

Trial-by-combat.

In their silence, they did not expect us to believe as they did. They actually said nothing at all about any of it, and only spoke in their diaries and in their letters about the actual events as they knew them to be. the Confederate president indeed offer his apologia in The Rise and Fall of the Confederate Government, but an apologia is not an apology; it is a defense of one's opinions or conduct.

It was the longest, most boring, over-worded excuse at treason ever written.

The rest of the South offers no such thing, nor did it care to offer any such.

They were too busy trying to put the pieces back together and get on with their lives as US citizens.

The South never surrendered. Appomattox was the surrender of Lee and the 8,000; not of the Confederacy. The Confederate South never surrendered; it chose to be destroyed, instead.

It surrendered. Over and over again, with Lee being one surrender among many. READ history and quit creating myth.

The flag still exists. Like unilateral secession, the present-day government has neither the will nor the right to ban the flag in a law, or an amendment, like some sort of a swastika of racism. Those of such a political nature are completely disappointed time and again when they attempt to remove the symbol from consideration.

Yes, the flag still exists, as it should, it's lessons to be learned from, but the rest of your above sentence is pure opinion, mixed in with a modern, political point-of-view that has absolutely nothing to do with learning from that flags history, mores the pity.

The important thing is that the South seceded from the union; anything else is a mere footnote to that event.

No, the important reason is WHY the South attempted unilateral secession from the Union. Everything else you post is a mere excuse.

I did not know what the South had left us until I went to my first Civil War reenactment, and I drove to that side of the field where the big Confederate flags were flying impudently in the wind. It is quite a rush for a Southern person to stand there and see those flags, and indeed, that flag in particular... beating against the breeze.

One has to wonder what brought on this "rush" as it certainly had nothing to do with actual history nor respect for the men and women who had fought under those flags.

The Betsy Ross flag must have surely felt the same way in the sight of those patriots of the Spirit of '76 of whom Thomas Jefferson ever mentioned with the greatest reverence.

Different time, flag, and reasons for such.

There is something thrilling about being completely despised, and yet feeling in your heart that you are, when it all shakes out, on the side of right as you see it.

I am absolutely dead certain that you have every been completely despised about your feelings for the fantasy you have constructed in this complete rant you have done here. You may be completely disbelieved for such rants, pitied perhaps, but no one is every going to waste enough time and energy to completely despise you. Its not worth anyone's effort.

It is a thrill that no one but a Southerner would understand, and it is worth all of the vitriolic venom and rage for the honor of standing in its shadow.

What an absolute, self-effacing crock.

Seriously,
Unionblue
 
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But it is a prettily written, self-effacing crock.

Thank you for saving me the trouble of having to come up with a sufficiently polite but pithy response.

But I do have to ask the Southern members of this forum; Does "Only a Southerner would understand ______" ever seem as completely, spitefully, pettily and insensitively hostile to every other American as it does to this Yankee? And for that matter, those things to any Southerners who don't identify themselves as a superior breed.

I mean, if I wrote that only a Yankee could possibly understand the value of freedom for example, I know that Unionblue or brass napoleon (among others, but as two I call friends) would take one look at it and wonder what troll had hacked my account. And I'm not known as one of the most polite and sensitive Yankees on this site even to my friends.

I'm far too opinionated for that.
 
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Thank you for saving me the trouble of having to come up with a sufficiently polite but pithy response.

But I do have to ask the Southern members of this forum; Does "Only a Southerner would understand ______" ever seem as completely, spitefully, pettily and insensitively hostile to every other American as it does to this Yankee? And for that matter, those things to any Southerners who don't identify themselves as a superior breed.

I mean, if I wrote that only a Yankee could possibly understand the value of freedom for example, I know that Unionblue or brass napoleon (among others, but as two I call friends) would take one look at it and wonder what troll had hacked my account. And I'm not known as one of the most polite and sensitive Yankees on this site even to my friends.

I'm far too opinionated for that.

Elennsar,

I have never understood anyone who makes the statement, "Only a Southerner would understand."

It simply comes across as "I'm too smart for the rest of you and have attained a higher level of thought and righteousness than you can ever hope for."

In other words, sheer arrogance based on nothing but that presumed arrogance.

Now, to me, what is "The Heritage and the Legacy of the Confederate South?"

I can only speak for myself, as I do not know the mind or beliefs of every person on this forum, let alone the entire region of what was for a brief period, the "Confederate South."

My own view? Having four direct Confederate ancestors, all of whom were slaveholders, the idea of a Confederate South comes across as the worst idea ever concieved by Americans living in the United States, at the time and at the present. Why?

Again, my own, personal point-of-view, cannot accept the idea that all the death and bloodshed caused by those who wished to retain slavery will never be a good idea. The idea that violence to preserve this idea above any peaceful means strikes me as simply insane. What "legacy" that brought forth such destruction is worth feeling 'good' about?

I know there was courage and bravery within the Confederacy during its brief time upon the earth. I have my own great-great-grandfather's capture at the Angle at Gettysburg in Picket's Charge to attest to that courage. But in my view, this view in the 21st century, the only one I can have, he was wrong, as wrong as anyone can be. As was his three brothers, Robert E. Lee and Jefferson Davis were absolutely wrong to bring on a rebellion based on one of the worst reasons an attempt at rebellion can have.

No so-called "legal" or "constitutional" waving of a verbal wand makes it any less wrong. I'm glad the Confederacy died at age four and I hope it and its ideas remain buried forever. It is not worth digging up and propping up the dead corpse of a bad idea just to feel good about one's ancestors.

Confederate history I can learn from, teach to my child and my grandchildren, so that they can learn from actual history instead of a misplaced attempt to reform a throughly bad idea.

Now, that's my view of my heritage, my history, and the concept of a Confederate South.

I'll answer for my own views and thoughts on the matter and not try to preach a lie.

Sincerely,
Unionblue
 
It's almost a religious experience. I was not prepared for the effect that it would have upon me, when it happened. I was standing there, and the first reaction I got was one of trepidation. There was flying a Confederate flag. Right in front of me. Way up in the sky, on a long and very capable pole. Surely the police would come and complain!

But none did. And as I grew to learn more about how the South saw their past, and how even some of the Confederates were black, and wore butternut and gray uniforms, and moved about within the Confederate camps, I was quite shocked. How some of the blacks played slaves, and some played freed men and historically correct, they stayed with the white troops in the same units and got paid the same money. There were no 'colored troops' segregated in the South under white officers.

As I sit here, I had an elderly black woman approach me and ask what was my unit, and I said correspondent, and she said was I going to be 'writing about the Golden Days?' I asked what those were, and she said, from under her turban, "the days of slavery," just as serious as she could say it.

I about fell over.
 
It's almost a religious experience. I was not prepared for the effect that it would have upon me, when it happened. I was standing there, and the first reaction I got was one of trepidation. There was flying a Confederate flag. Right in front of me. Way up in the sky, on a long and very capable pole. Surely the police would come and complain!

But none did. And as I grew to learn more about how the South saw their past, and how even some of the Confederates were black, and wore butternut and gray uniforms, and moved about within the Confederate camps, I was quite shocked. How some of the blacks played slaves, and some played freed men and historically correct, they stayed with the white troops in the same units and got paid the same money. There were no 'colored troops' segregated in the South under white officers.

As I sit here, I had an elderly black woman approach me and ask what was my unit, and I said correspondent, and she said was I going to be 'writing about the Golden Days?' I asked what those were, and she said, from under her turban, "the days of slavery," just as serious as she could say it.

I about fell over.

And I am about to bend over and hurl over the nonsense you have posted above.
 
And I am about to bend over and hurl over the nonsense you have posted above.


I am sorry that it makes you ill. I can tell you stories of the modern camps, and the boys wearing black t shirts with huge Confederate flags on them, sharing their beef jerky with some black girls they knew from their high school. No tension at all. Absolutely none. Laughing and joking and carrying on a bunch of foolishness... You'da though you was in the Twilight Zone...

But, then, I guess they just don't know any better. No one ever told them that they were supposed to have these great cultural differences. The boys had come from school dressed like that. I asked, and they looked at me funny. Sure. We can wear whatever we want... They had their pick-ups all decked out in splendor. One had a third national permanently mounted on a pole in the bed of his four wheel drive Ford.

Course, they still swing paddles in those schools, and people still have some idea about how to sit down, shut up, and behave. And they were very polite and well-mannered.

Again, I have to recommend to you Mr. HK Edgerton, on Facebook, and other venues. He is one of the best known black flaggers, and he was once the president of the North Carolina Chapter of the NAACP.

Actual Black Confederate interviews:



 
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I am sorry that it makes you ill. I can tell you stories of the modern camps, and the boys wearing black t shirts with huge Confederate flags on them, sharing their beef jerky with some black girls they knew from their high school. No tension at all. Absolutely none. Laughing and joking and carrying on a bunch of foolishness... You'da though you was in the Twilight Zone...

And this is what I earnestly believe about your above statement, that you "can tell stories" but that you cannot under any circumstances give a true account that's worth a dam.

Look, I get it. I know you make these posts to draw a reaction and I know you like doing such. You seem to need the attention that such fairy tales gain for you.

But the problem is you are doing damage. Not to me or to any of the long-time members here. They know immediately when they are being fed a line of absolute bull.

The problem is that you and folks like you are throwing sand into the eyes of anyone who truly wants to learn about history. I don't have a problem with those trying to 'defend' the memory of the Confederate soldier or who wish to make sure that other causes of the American Civil War are given fair consideration. They can, and have, presented those arguments in a factual, informative and intelligent manner, making all of us here pause and do serious research to reply to those excellent points-of-view.

But these rants, these totally nonsensical tangents into fantasy help no one, impress no one and only help to deflate and to damage those who truly wish to study actual history. All you are doing is preaching and you're not even preaching for the 'cause' but to inflate your own agenda and ego at the expense of actual history. And your preaching is based upon "stories" unverified, unproven, and as fictional as any science fiction work I have ever read.

You obviously have a lot of time on your hands which is why I can't understand why you cannot produce any historical evidence or sources that are worth looking at. You insist on remaining in OZ looking through emerald colored glasses and pretending you are truly in an emerald city.

Look at this very thread you created just so you can provoke responses. "The Heritage and the Legacy of the Confederate South." How in history's name can you presume to speak for anyone but yourself? Where do you get off thinking you can speak for millions of present day Southerners? How is that possible? To be honest, if you can, you know you cannot. So you go for the shock value and hope you get attention. Then the twisting of history is just so fantastic, so one-sided as to be utterly worthless in gaining any historical lesson from the period.

You cannot even be objective, cannot even pretend to be such, in that craving for attention on this forum. That would be of no use to you.

You and those like you need to be confronted, but not for the reason you want. You need to have those who actually care about the history of the period, even those who claim an affinity for the Confederacy, always square off and call you out when you twist, turn and mangle actual history. For you can do real harm to the study of history because you distort it out of all recognition and crush the spirit of those who would actually give history serious consideration and study.

Enjoy your moment.

It won't last.

Unionblue
 
jgoodguy,

Sleep well, old friend, and dream, of faith and causes, myths and fairy tales...

Oh, wait.

You moderate all of that stuff, don't you?

Never mind, just sleep. :wink:

Sincerely,
Unionblue
traditional-prints-and-posters.jpg
 
I am sorry that it makes you ill. I can tell you stories of the modern camps, and the boys wearing black t shirts with huge Confederate flags on them, sharing their beef jerky with some black girls they knew from their high school. No tension at all. Absolutely none. Laughing and joking and carrying on a bunch of foolishness... You'da though you was in the Twilight Zone...

But, then, I guess they just don't know any better. No one ever told them that they were supposed to have these great cultural differences. The boys had come from school dressed like that. I asked, and they looked at me funny. Sure. We can wear whatever we want... They had their pick-ups all decked out in splendor. One had a third national permanently mounted on a pole in the bed of his four wheel drive Ford.

Course, they still swing paddles in those schools, and people still have some idea about how to sit down, shut up, and behave. And they were very polite and well-mannered.

Again, I have to recommend to you Mr. HK Edgerton, on Facebook, and other venues. He is one of the best known black flaggers, and he was once the president of the North Carolina Chapter of the NAACP.

Actual Black Confederate interviews:




TheSecretSix,

I notice you had to wait until AFTER I had posted my own reply to this post to add the numerous videos on HK Edgerton, et. al. Why is that?

Unionblue
 
You state in your OP:


for none of those people wanted to go under minority rule, none of them wish to give up their political power in their own state to a group of freed slaves who were being convinced that their freedom had come from the northern invasion rather than from where it had truly come from; the South seceding from the union in the first instance, and condemning slavery as an art form in North America forever.
---------------------------------

Are you stating that slaves owe their freedom from the South seceding from the Union & not from the Union armies destroying the CSA armies & that the South was "condemning slavery as an art form (what ever that means) in North America for ever?
This just baffles my mind…the CSA was primarily formed to keep the slave system in place. I thought I had heard it all.
What is Southern Heritage? I would say it's rebuilding its infrastructure - Jim Crow laws - & in recent years being very successful in reestablishing it's economy & working hard to accept blacks as equal members of Southern society.
 
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Course, they still swing paddles in those schools, and people still have some idea about how to sit down, shut up, and behave. And they were very polite and well-mannered.

By the term "swing paddles" do you mean that the school authorities beat the students?
 
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