★ ★  Rosecrans, William S.

William Starke “Old Rosy” Rosecrans

:us34stars:
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Born: September 6, 1819

Birthplace: Delaware County, Ohio

Father: Crandall Rosecrans 1794 – 1848

Mother: Jemima Hopkins 1794 – 1861

Wife: Ann Eliza Hegeman 1823 – 1883
(Buried: Mount Olivet Cemetery, Washington, D.C.)​
Married: August 24, 1843 at St. Paul’s Church in New York City, New York

Children:

Rev. Adrian Louis Rosecrans 1849 – 1876​
(Buried: Saint Paul the Apostle Church Vault, Manhattan, New York)​
Sister Mary Louise “Sister St. Charles” Rosecrans 1852 – 1878​
(Buried: Ursuline Cemetery, Saint Martin, Ohio)​
Lily Elizabeth Rosecrans Toole 1854 – 1939​
(Buried: Resurrection Cemetery, Helena, Montana)​
Anna Delores “Anita” Rosecrans 1857 – 1903​
(Buried: Old Saint Mary’s Catholic Cemetery, Helena, Montana)​
Carl Frederic Rosecrans 1860 – 1926​
(Buried: Calvary Cemetery, Los Angeles, California)​
Charlotte Rosecrans 1862 - 1862​

Education:

1842: Graduated from West Point Military Academy – (5th in class)​

Occupation before War:

1842 – 1843: Brevet 2nd Lt. United States Army, Corps of Engineers​
1842 – 1843: Assistant Engineer for Hampton Roads Fortifications​
1843 – 1853: 2nd Lt. United States Army, Corps of Engineers​
1843 – 1844: Assistant Engineering Professor at West Point​
1844 – 1845: Assistant Philosophy Professor at West Point​
1845 – 1846: Assistant Engineering Professor at West Point​
1846 – 1847: Principal Assistant Engineering Professor at West Point​
1847 – 1853: Superintendent Engineer of Repairs at Fort Adams​
1852 – 1853: Superintendent Engineer of Surveys of Taunton River​
1852 – 1853: Superintendent Engineer Repairs on Goat Island​
1853 – 1854: 1st Lt. United States Army, Corps of Engineers​
1853 – 1854: Superintendent Engineer, Washington Navy Yard​
1854: Resigned from United States Army on April 1st
1854 – 1855: Civil Engineer, and Architect, in Cincinnati, Ohio​
1855 – 1857: Superintendent of Coal Company, in Coal River, Virginia​
1856 – 1857: President of Coal River Navigation Company​
1857 – 1861: Manufacturer of Kerosene Oil in Cincinnati, Ohio​

Civil War Career:
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1861: Volunteer Aide to McClellan for Department of the Ohio​
1861: Colonel, and Chief Engineer in the Union Army​
1861: Colonel of 23rd Ohio Infantry Regiment​
1861: Commander of Camp Chase, Ohio​
1861 – 1867: Brigadier General in United States Army​
1861: Brigade Commander at Battle of Rich Mountain​
1861: Commander of the Union Army, Department of the Ohio​
1861 – 1862: Commander of the Army Department of Western Virginia​
1861: Successful Commander at Battle of Carnifex Ferry​
1862 – 1866: Major General of Union Army, Volunteers​
1862: Division Commander at the Siege of Corinth, Mississippi​
1862: Commander of the Union Army of the Mississippi​
1862: Successful Commander at Battle of Iuka, Mississippi​
1862: Union Army Commander of District of Corinth, Mississippi​
1862: Successful Commander at 2nd Battle of Corinth, Mississippi​
1862 – 1863: Union Army Commander of Army of the Cumberland​
1862 – 1863: Successful Commander at Battle of Stones River, Tennessee​
1863: Union Army Commander Occupation of Bridgeport – Stevenson​
1863: Union Army Commander crossing of Cumberland Mountains​
1863: Unsuccessful Commander at Battle of Chickamuga, Georgia​
1863: Commenced fortifying Chattanooga, Tennessee​
1863 – 1864: Awaiting Orders in Cincinnati, Ohio​
1864: Union Army Commander of Department of the Missouri​
1864 – 1865: Awaiting Orders in Cincinnati, Ohio​
1865: Brevetted Major General, U.S. Army, for Service at Stones River​
1865 – 1867: On Leave of Absence from the United States Army​
1866: Mustered out of the Union Army on January 15th

Occupation after War:
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1861 – 1867: Brigadier General in United States Army​
1865 – 1867: On Leave of Absence from the United States Army​
1867: Resigned from United States Army on March 28th
1868 – 1869: U.S. Minister to the Republic of Mexico​
1869: Declined Democratic Nomination for Governor of Ohio​
1869 – 1881: Civil and Mining Engineer, Railroad Enterprises in Mexico​
1871 – 1881: President of San Jose Mining Company​
1878 – 1881: President of Safety Powder Company in San Francisco​
1881 – 1885: United States Congressman from California​
1883 – 1885: House Chairman of Military Affairs Committee​
1885 – 1893: Register for U.S. Treasury Department​
1889: Brigadier General, U.S. Army on the retired list of officers​

Died: March 10, 1898

Place of Death: Bernardo Beach, California

Cause of Death: Pneumonia

Age at time of Death: 78 years old

Original Burial Place: Rosedale Cemetery, Los Angeles, California

Final Burial Place:
Arlington National Cemetery, Arlington, Virginia
 
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Would there have been a battle of Chickamauga without the Tennessee Campaigns ( Tullahoma and Chickamauga Campaign?)
Some other questions I’d like you to think about and give me your thoughts:
Rosecrans is criticized for dividing his army to force Bragg out of Chattanooga. How else could he have approached that city and forced Bragg to evacuate?
What if he had pulled all of his army into Chattanooga after Bragg evacuated what would the Confederates have done?
Wasn’t there going to be a battle for Chattanooga sooner rather later? Wasn’t Longstreet sent to fight?
What would have been a Union victory?
What would have been a Confederate defeat?
Of course the simple answer is the destruction of the opposing army but since that rarely if ever happened after a battle what else would define victory for either side?
I assure you I ask these questions with an open mind.
 
Would there have been a battle of Chickamauga without the Tennessee Campaigns ( Tullahoma and Chickamauga Campaign?)
Some other questions I’d like you to think about and give me your thoughts:
Rosecrans is criticized for dividing his army to force Bragg out of Chattanooga. How else could he have approached that city and forced Bragg to evacuate?
What if he had pulled all of his army into Chattanooga after Bragg evacuated what would the Confederates have done?
Wasn’t there going to be a battle for Chattanooga sooner rather later? Wasn’t Longstreet sent to fight?
What would have been a Union victory?
What would have been a Confederate defeat?
Of course the simple answer is the destruction of the opposing army but since that rarely if ever happened after a battle what else would define victory for either side?
I assure you I ask these questions with an open mind.

Obviously no one would be at chickamauga if they hadn’t had the Tennessee campaigns. But a campaign and a battle are different things and the determination of their victory or defeat is distinct - one can win a campaign yet lose a battle within that campaign and one can win a battle but lose the campaign

I have not criticized Rosecrans for dividing his army when approaching Chattanooga, so I have no response to that question

It’s speculation as to what would have happened if Rosecrans had not tried to go after Bragg into Georgia but I suppose the Confederates would have looked for some way around him such as sending Longstreet to East Tennessee.

Can’t say for sure if there was going to be a battle for Chattanooga.
We do know there was a battle “at” Chattanooga in November 1863 but it wasn’t really “for” Chattanooga.

Longstreet was sent to fight

A Union victory/Confederate defeat when? In what context? As a result of what intent in the pursuit of what objectives?
Your questions are too vague.
 
Also after Halleck has told Rosecrans that Bragg is sending Troops to Lee.
He never actually said that. He did say that “ It is reported here by deserters that a part of Bragg's army is reinforcing Lee. It is important that the truth of this should be ascertained as early as possible." He is showing skepticism of the deserters
 
Obviously no one would be at chickamauga if they hadn’t had the Tennessee campaigns. But a campaign and a battle are different things and the determination of their victory or defeat is distinct - one can win a campaign yet lose a battle within that campaign and one can win a battle but lose the campaign

I have not criticized Rosecrans for dividing his army when approaching Chattanooga, so I have no response to that question

It’s speculation as to what would have happened if Rosecrans had not tried to go after Bragg into Georgia but I suppose the Confederates would have looked for some way around him such as sending Longstreet to East Tennessee.

Can’t say for sure if there was going to be a battle for Chattanooga.
We do know there was a battle “at” Chattanooga in November 1863 but it wasn’t really “for” Chattanooga.

Longstreet was sent to fight

A Union victory/Confederate defeat when? In what context? As a result of what intent in the pursuit of what objectives?
Your questions are too vague.
I’d say Chickamauga can be seen as an example
of a lost battle in a winning Campaign.

I think Rosecrans had to divide his army in order to threaten Bragg’s rear. The alternatives were to attack from the north and move away from his supply line and base at Bridgeport AL
or to march along the narrow Tennessee River Gorge through the mountains that flanked the River. I think he chose right but in doing so put his army at risk of being defeated in detail.

I think if Rosecrans had sent a unified army after Bragg the Confederates would have gone back into Chattanooga and the positions could have been reversed with the Union army outside of the city. They certainly couldn’t have galloped to Atlanta and of course reinforcements were on their way to Bragg via Atlanta. Rosecrans could have been squeezed between two fronts in the mountains of north Georgia. .

The battle “at Chattanooga”’was fought with the Union firmly in possession and with an army 50% larger than the Confederates. When did the Union army gain control of Chattanooga? After Chickamauga I’d say.

Longstreet was sent to fight not lay siege to a Union army in Chattanooga.

The Confederate objective at Chickamauga was to get between the Union left and Chattanooga. Rosecrans - acting on the many requests from
Thomas- had to take forces from his right to send to the left. This of course weakened his right.
The Confederates failed in this and in this sense I’d say Chickamauga was a strategic defeat.
A victory for the Union might have been Bragg’s withdrawal toward Atlanta. Would Rosecrans with his badly wounded and outnumbered army
pursued Bragg south? I don’t think that would have been prudent.Grant didn’t pursue Bragg after the battles at Chattanooga. He probably would have moved into Chattanooga and telegraphed Washington for urgent help. Not too different from what happened after Chickamauga?
 
…Grant didn’t pursue Bragg after the battles at Chattanooga.
I’ll discuss some of your other opinions separately, but this one is just false. Your lack of understanding of actual events is concerning. There was pursuit - that’s how Hooker ended up at the battle of Ringgold Gap
 
When did the Union army gain control of Chattanooga? After Chickamauga I’d say.
September 9 Rosecrans told Halleck that Chattanooga was his
September 10 Crittenden wrote that he had full possession of it

So the Union army had control of it over a week before Chickamauga
 
Mr Hawk does flailing around meaning asking questions at the specific things Smith did to open the Cracker Line like construction orders? Not an important aspect of the operations I suppose.
If I find time I’ll go through the war Dept report and find the specifics of what it says about Smith’s claims. Perhaps you could do the same with Livermore’s claims.
"Flailing around" means avoiding the point by going on tangents.

The dispute between Smith and Rosecrans was not about boats or communications with Hooker. It was about the Browns Ferry operation, which Rosecrans later claimed to his plan all along. Livermore showed that Rosecrans plan differed "radically" from the plan conceived by Smith, and proposed to Thomas, and then approved by Grant.

Both plans were about how to open the cracker line through Lookout Valley. Yes Rosecrans planned to do that at some point.

Rosecrans plan had more prerequisites than Smiths plan: Occupy the passes, possess many more supply wagons, wait for reinforcements, bridge across the river at the mouth of Lookout creek, etc.

Smiths plan was simpler. A bridge over Browns Ferry, and have Hooker move up and connect with the Chattanooga forces. This could have been done weeks before it did, and it would have saved many of the animals and kept the men off reduced rations.
 
Rosecrans is criticized for dividing his army to force Bragg out of Chattanooga.
No he's not. He's criticized for leaving them scattered after getting past Lookout. His right, McCook, was heading toward Summerville, and his left, Crittenden, was operating about 50 or 60 miles north of there.

He should have closed up his forces to within supporting distance of each other, regardless of whether that meant concentrating at Chattanooga or concentrating somewhere else.
 
September 9 Rosecrans told Halleck that Chattanooga was his
September 10 Crittenden wrote that he had full possession of it

So the Union army had control of it over a week before Chickamauga
Then Crittenden left Chattanooga leaving only George Wagner’s brigade to garrison the city.
 
No he's not. He's criticized for leaving them scattered after getting past Lookout. His right, McCook, was heading toward Summerville, and his left, Crittenden, was operating about 50 or 60 miles north of there.

He should have closed up his forces to within supporting distance of each other, regardless of whether that meant concentrating at Chattanooga or concentrating somewhere else.
Let’s say that he had closed up his forces ( eventually he did) then what happens?
 
"Flailing around" means avoiding the point by going on tangents.

The dispute between Smith and Rosecrans was not about boats or communications with Hooker. It was about the Browns Ferry operation, which Rosecrans later claimed to his plan all along. Livermore showed that Rosecrans plan differed "radically" from the plan conceived by Smith, and proposed to Thomas, and then approved by Grant.

Both plans were about how to open the cracker line through Lookout Valley. Yes Rosecrans planned to do that at some point.

Rosecrans plan had more prerequisites than Smiths plan: Occupy the passes, possess many more supply wagons, wait for reinforcements, bridge across the river at the mouth of Lookout creek, etc.

Smiths plan was simpler. A bridge over Browns Ferry, and have Hooker move up and connect with the Chattanooga forces. This could have been done weeks before it did, and it would have saved many of the animals and kept the men off reduced rations.
No steamboats to bring up the rations? Pontoon bridge? Who authorized the construction of the pontoons?
 
Let’s say that he had closed up his forces ( eventually he did) then what happens?
It's not like he was outnumbered two-to-one. If his troops are not fatigued and he has not been sleepless for days, he chooses the ground wisely, makes smart dispositions, prepares some basic works, manages the battle well, and keeps possession of the field. Bragg retreats again.

Rinse and repeat, until Bragg's army is soundly defeated. The war wasn't going to won by simply occupying Chattanooga. He would have had to keep going on the offensive.
 
No steamboats to bring up the rations? Pontoon bridge? Who authorized the construction of the pontoons?
That's not what the Smith/Rosecrans debate was about. It was about the strategic value of Browns Ferry and who conceived the plan to bridge the river there, with the immediate benefits that resulted.

George Thomas credited Smith with "conceiving" the Browns Ferry plan.
 
It's not like he was outnumbered two-to-one. If his troops are not fatigued and he has not been sleepless for days, he chooses the ground wisely, makes smart dispositions, prepares some basic works, manages the battle well, and keeps possession of the field. Bragg retreats again.

Rinse and repeat, until Bragg's army is soundly defeated. The war wasn't going to won by simply occupying Chattanooga. He would have had to keep going on the offensive.
The key word in your post to me is battle. You do think there would have been a battle around Chattanooga before Rosecrans was reinforced? After this battle Rosecrans should have kept going after Bragg even though he was outnumbered and his army presumably would have suffered a high number of casualties? While all this is going on Chattanooga is held by only a brigade. Shouldn’t t he be concerned about that and go back into Chattanooga ( actually bring the great majority of his army into Chattanooga for the first time?)
Soundly defeating Bragg means destroyed or what happened at and after Missionary Ridge?
 
That's not what the Smith/Rosecrans debate was about. It was about the strategic value of Browns Ferry and who conceived the plan to bridge the river there, with the immediate benefits that resulted.

George Thomas credited Smith with "conceiving" the Browns Ferry plan.
So you do give credit to Rosecrans for the construction aspect of the operation? Over the next few days I’ll review what the Board concluded about the Browns Ferry aspect. You can do that too of course.
 
The key word in your post to me is battle. You do think there would have been a battle around Chattanooga before Rosecrans was reinforced? After this battle Rosecrans should have kept going after Bragg even though he was outnumbered and his army presumably would have suffered a high number of casualties? While all this is going on Chattanooga is held by only a brigade. Shouldn’t t he be concerned about that and go back into Chattanooga ( actually bring the great majority of his army into Chattanooga for the first time?)
Soundly defeating Bragg means destroyed or what happened at and after Missionary Ridge?
Well, if he's worried about being outnumbered, then concentrate his forces at at Chattanooga and fortify it and see what develops. He had been told that Bragg was being reinforced - first by Grenville Dodge and then by Halleck - so if there was any doubt of what he should do, then occupy Chattanooga and Lookout valley, and play it safe.

The point is there were better options than to leave the forces scattered, in a risky pursuit of the enemy. Scrambling to unite his army and then suffering a defeat were not his sole options.
 
So you do give credit to Rosecrans for the construction aspect of the operation? Over the next few days I’ll review what the Board concluded about the Browns Ferry aspect. You can do that too of course.
What you can do while you're reviewing it, is to keep in mind that the scope of the boards investigation, as Livermore noted, went beyond what Baldy Smith wanted addressed.

Smith never claimed that Rosecrans did not plan at some point to open the cracker line through Lookout Valley. What Smith complained about was that Rosecrans was given credit for the Browns ferry plan, which was his plan. Rosecrans never claimed that he had specifically identified Browns Ferry as the best option until decades after the war. He had always mentioned a bridge close to the mouth of Lookout creek which was two miles away from Browns ferry.

The differences between the Smith plan and the Rosecrans plan were noted by Livermore. The board lumped everything together into a generalized Lookout valley plan.
 
So if Crittenden keeps the part of his corps that is with him in Chattanooga doesn’t that mean that Rosecrans is at an even greater numerical disadvantage when fighting starts?
As you said Longstreet was sent to fight a battle its good to have as many troops as possible in the fight.
 
So if Crittenden keeps the part of his corps that is with him in Chattanooga doesn’t that mean that Rosecrans is at an even greater numerical disadvantage when fighting starts?
As you said Longstreet was sent to fight a battle its good to have as many troops as possible in the fight.
Who are you asking? And can you explain better what you are asking?
 
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