Sherman The Paradox of William T. Sherman

Or, perhaps this one which is out of New York and written by a Union officer who was with Sherman as Atlanta burned?


Retired Major General Howard is quoted in the article he wrote by saying “ The entire city seemed to be on fire.”

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What are we disagreeing about here?

I acknowledge that Sherman's army did some substantial burning before they left Atlanta. It was targeted at war-making capabilities. Homes were not targeted. Modern historians estimate about 40% of the city was destroyed, partly by Sherman, partly by Hood.

So what do we disagree on?
 
Strange then that Sherman himself says he left it "smouldering and in ruins" and "We quietly and deliberately destroyed Atlanta".

Sherman's motive was also clarified in his own words:
[when he proposes the] "utter destruction of its [Georgia's] roads, houses and people";
"I can make the march, and make Georgia howl";
"prefer to ... move through Georgia, smashing things to the sea";
"we ... must make old and young, rich and poor, feel the hard hand of war, as well as their organized armies";
"the whole army is burning with an insatiable desire to wreak vengeance";
"she [South Carolina] deserves all that seems in store for her"; and
"I doubt if we will spare the public buildings there [Columbia] as we did at Milledgeville".
I edited that post to include Marszalek.

40% of the city. That's seems to be the consensus even among local historians.

Sherman was a fiery writer. But we're talking about what actually happened.
 
Georgia, I've never said the only credible information is from a northern source. There are many historians from the south that I respect. Timothy Smith is probably my favorite historian and he is from the south.

It's not where someone is from, it is the level of bias.
Do you not see that you present a bias from those referenced materials shared from eyewitness accounts of inhabitants of Atlanta, Confederate Troops, officers and governmental workers who witnessed the damage upon Sherman leaving the city, current or past historians who present works but who happen to be Southern writers?

I find it very evident. That’s why I’ve been trying to locate alternative Northern sources for you to review.

It’s like I’m trying really hard to show you that the Earth isn’t flat- and, I’m not feeling as though you’re interested in learning that it really could be round. It wouldn’t matter if I showed you photographs from the space station or orbiting satellites or even sworn statement by the astronauts who went to the moon and actually saw the Earth as a sphere...you still seem to not even want to consider anything but your tidy decision that the earth is flat.
You following me? I just want you to read enough to let yourself start to think that, “huh- there could be more to this. The photos show the Earth is round, so do the videos- even the sworn statements of the astronauts confirm it. Maybe, just maybe the Earth really could be round!”
 
Do you not see that you present a bias from those referenced materials shared from eyewitness accounts of inhabitants of Atlanta, Confederate Troops, officers and governmental workers who witnessed the damage upon Sherman leaving the city, current or past historians who present works but who happen to be Southern writers?

I find it very evident. That’s why I’ve been trying to locate alternative Northern sources for you to review.

It’s like I’m trying really hard to show you that the Earth isn’t flat- and, I’m not feeling as though you’re interested in learning that it really could be round. It wouldn’t matter if I showed you photographs from the space station or orbiting satellites or even sworn statement by the astronauts who went to the moon and actually saw the Earth as a sphere...you still seem to not even want to consider anything but your tidy decision that the earth is flat.
You following me? I just want you to read enough to let yourself start to think that, “huh- there could be more to this. The photos show the Earth is round, so do the videos- even the sworn statements of the astronauts confirm it. Maybe, just maybe the Earth really could be round!”
Do you think that it's a little presumptuous to believe that once people see all the relevant information, they are going to agree with your opinion?

I'm reading your information. I've read other information too. I've read regimental histories of the men who marched. Eyewitnesses.

What do we disagree on in regards to the burning of Atlanta, specifically? Please tell me, because I don't know what the disagreement is to specifically the burning of Atlanta.
 
What are we disagreeing about here?

I acknowledge that Sherman's army did some substantial burning before they left Atlanta. It was targeted at war-making capabilities. Homes were not targeted. Modern historians estimate about 40% of the city was destroyed, partly by Sherman, partly by Hood.

So what do we disagree on?
On the points above:
We disagree on the fact that I very much accept the fact that businesses, industry, infrastructures and entire neighborhoods of private homes were torched by Sherman’s troops before he left Atlanta to make his march to the sea.
 
I edited that post to include Marszalek.

40% of the city. That's seems to be the consensus even among local historians.

Sherman was a fiery writer. But we're talking about what actually happened.

What actually happened is best determined by witnesses at the time (even Sherman himself), source documents and period commentary NOT commentary by contemporary writers.
 
Do you think that it's a little presumptuous to believe that once people see all the relevant information, they are going to agree with your opinion?

I'm reading your information. I've read other information too. I've read regimental histories of the men who marched. Eyewitnesses.

What do we disagree on in regards to the burning of Atlanta, specifically? Please tell me, because I don't know what the disagreement is to specifically the burning of Atlanta.
I’m not asking you to jump up and down and shout from the rooftops that the Earth is round. I’m just asking you to read the information with an open mind and maybe, just maybe consider that there could maybe, possibly be more to the story.
 
What actually happened is best determined by witnesses at the time (even Sherman himself), source documents and period commentary NOT commentary by contemporary writers.
We are going by witnesses and sources. Where do you think historians like Marszalek get their info?
 
I’m not asking you to jump up and down and shout from the rooftops that the Earth is round. I’m just asking you to read the information with an open mind and maybe, just maybe consider that there could maybe, possibly be more to the story.
Okay, and likewise. Perhaps you can keep an open mind and see that some of the stories about Sherman are embellished.
 
On the points above:
We disagree on the fact that I very much accept the fact that businesses, industry, infrastructures and entire neighborhoods of private homes were torched by Sherman’s troops before he left Atlanta to make his march to the sea.
I absolutely agree that Atlanta's businesses, industry, infrastructure were destroyed, and that there were houses that were destroyed inadvertently.

Do you agree that Sherman never ordered indiscriminate burning of Atlanta's houses?
 
We are going by witnesses and sources. Where do you think historians like Marszalek get their info?
You may be too young, but did you ever play the game “telephone?” One person says a sentence to the next person and it continues to go down the line until the last person says what they heard and it’s compared to what the first person said.
I prefer to go with the what is said by the first person. So, transitively, I prefer the verified eye witness accounts of those who were there. And, I prefer the accounts which are consistent with multiple accounts. I tend to go with the scientific thought process. Prove it to me, then, make sure it’s a repeatable experiment kind of thing.
If Mr. Marszalek has data which is repeatable from other sources to substantiate what he says happened, then, of course, I would be open to considering his theories.
 
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We are going by witnesses and sources. Where do you think historians like Marszalek get their info?

I have no idea where Marszalek got his information. If you know of witness statements, source documents and period commentary that support your argument you should quote them as they would carry more weight.
 
You may be too young, but did you ever play the game “telephone?” One person days a sentence to the next person and it continued to go down the line until the last person says what they heard and it’s compared to what the first person said.
I prefer to go with the what is said by the first person. So, transitively, I prefer the verified eye witness accounts of those who were there. And, I prefer the accounts which are consistent with multiple accounts. I tend to go with the scientific thought process. Prove it to me, then, make sure it’s a repeatable experiment kind of thing.
If Mr. Marszalek has data which is repeatable from other sources to substantiate what he says happened, then, of course, I would be open to considering his theories.
He has a bibliography with the sources listed, and a good reputation among historians. Keep in mind that your own sources have not generally been first-hand sources.

Regarding age, I'm fairly certain that I'm older than yourself.
 
I have no idea where Marszalek got his information. If you know of witness statements, source documents and period commentary that support your argument you should quote them as they would carry more weight.
I've already provided you screen grabs of the bibliography page relevant to that excerpt.
 
I absolutely agree that Atlanta's businesses, industry, infrastructure were destroyed, and that there were houses that were destroyed inadvertently.

Do you agree that Sherman never ordered indiscriminate burning of Atlanta's houses?

Of course Sherman did so order because (when you quote Marszalek saying Sherman "ordered his engineering officer. 0. M. Poe, to destroy “all depots, car-houses. shops, factories. foundries, Rec. . . . fire will do most of the work," [an instance where Marszalek refers to a source document in the form of an order]) Sherman knew (as anyone would) that it was obvious that once you begin multiple fires in a city containing buildings largely constructed of combustible materials it will quickly spread with no regard as to whether it burns a house or other structure. As Sherman had forcibly removed most of the population there would be no-one to even make an effort to effectively fight the fires.
 
Of course Sherman did so order because (when you quote Marszalek saying Sherman "ordered his engineering officer. 0. M. Poe, to destroy “all depots, car-houses. shops, factories. foundries, Rec. . . . fire will do most of the work," [an instance where Marszalek refers to a source document in the form of an order]) Sherman knew (as anyone would) that it was obvious that once you begin multiple fires in a city containing buildings largely constructed of combustible materials it will quickly spread with no regard as to whether it burns a house or other structure. As Sherman had forcibly removed most of the population there would be no-one to even make an effort to effectively fight the fires.
Wrong. An order is specific. Poe was ordered to destroy what he was ordered to destroy.

There was no order to indiscriminately burn houses. And Poe did not do so.
 
He has a bibliography with the sources listed, and a good reputation among historians. Keep in mind that your own sources have not generally been first-hand sources.

Regarding age, I'm fairly certain that I'm older than yourself.
Oh, I do realize they aren’t all first hand/eye witness sources. In fact, I’m thinking most were not. Didn’t mean to imply that they were.
Also, being a product of the state and seeing and living in the area of the alleged (I’m trying to be open to your opinions here) destruction is also going to be difficult to combat. Just want to throw that out there so there’s no misunderstandings.
 
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