Lanyard Puller
First Sergeant
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2017
- Location
- South Carolina
What reliable sources say that the James’ carried 10 pistols?But if he owned it, it WAS HIS gun. There's nothing false or misleading to the provenance in that case, unless one is claiming its linked to a specific robbery or shooting...…..
In a case like James boys, they were known to carry upwards to 10 revolvers during the war, and would be forced to leave some behind when jumped, throw away during fights, to simply replace later with other captured/stolen arms...Not to mention followed by a 17 year outlaw career...the numbers of guns that passed through his or Jesse's hands would be considerable, and almost impossible to document the majority of them's provenance or being linked to any specific act, anymore then any he bought and sold post outlaw
"They" referred to guerrillas. Most sources on guerrillas note them carrying multiple pistols, Archie Clement for example was killed after using 14 in a fight. BTW i said upwards of 10, not specifically 10, but could have said upwards of 14 as we know it was done. In Archies case it includes guns he carried on his horse.What reliable sources say that the James’ carried 10 pistols?
Which would have made the gun in fact owned by Bat Masterson..........buying guns to sell as souvenirs still indicates ownership of what he was selling as souvenirsJust as an aside, after he became a sports writer, Bat Masterson would buy a gun in a pawn shop and keep it in his desk at the newspaper office to sell to some tourist who had come by to meet the great gun fighter.
Mosby and his crowd were said to carry two each. I’d like to see the rig that allowed someone to carry 14 on a horse."They" referred to guerrillas. Most sources on guerrillas note them carrying multiple pistols, Archie Clement for example was killed after using 14 in a fight. BTW i said upwards of 10, not specifically 10, but could have said upwards of 14 as we know it was done. In Archies case it includes guns he carried on his horse.
I was at a reenactment of the event, and it didnt look hard at all, people tend to forget pocket pistols were popular in the CW era and could be carried from pockets to boots, on a horse saddle holsters were used as well, besides saddlebags.Mosby and his crowd were said to carry two each. I’d like to see the rig that allowed someone to carry 14 on a horse.
You seem to be assuming that they were all carried in holster rigs on the gunman's body at the same time. No one is asserting that. Pistols were carried in saddle holsters, across the shoulders of horses, in saddle bags, tucked into belts, in pockets, in boots, etc., etc., etc. It is common (the norm, in fact) to see three or four revolvers visible in any seated photo of a Missouri guerrilla. Google some images and see for yourself. When the real Little Archie Clements died in Lexington, Missouri, he had expended and dropped eleven or twelve revolvers and was still holding one--attempting to cock it with his teeth. Use the internal search engine to find my thread on that incident: The Death of Little Archie Clements.Mosby and his crowd were said to carry two each. I’d like to see the rig that allowed someone to carry 14 on a horse.
I’d love to see some primary sources that describe guerrillas carry ten or more sidearms. I find this very interesting.You seem to be assuming that they were all carried in holster rigs on the gunman's body at the same time. No one is asserting that. Pistols were carried in saddle holsters, across the shoulders of horses, in saddle bags, tucked into belts, in pockets, in boots, etc., etc., etc. It is common (the norm, in fact) to see three or four revolvers visible in any seated photo of a Missouri guerrilla. Google some images and see for yourself. When the real Little Archie Clements died in Lexington, Missouri, he had expended and dropped eleven or twelve revolvers and was still holding one--attempting to cock it with his teeth. Use the internal search engine to find my thread on that incident: The Death of Little Archie Clements.
There are lots of sources, and they are not hard to find. If you'll take the time to read through the thread I referenced about the Death of Little Archie Clements, you'll see a reference to an eyewitness account given by a man who was present. You can track down his account online and read it there. That's what I did. You can read "Quantrill and the Border Wars" by William Elsey Connelly online for free. Choose the PDF option so you can see and read his voluminous footnotes. He wrote this book at the turn of the previous century. He knew and befriended numerous former guerrillas, attended their reunions, recorded their eyewitness accounts, etc. etc. etc. It's a good and informative read, but be advised that he was one of the first Quantrill demonizers--even though he later befriended numerous Q. men. You can read "The Gregg Manuscript" online for free. It is a recollection written by William Gregg, who was one of Quantrill's top lieutenants. You can read "Babe of the Company" online for free. It's the memoir of Hamp Watts, who was the youngest recruit in Bill Anderson's outfit. You can read "Three Years With Quantrill", which is the memoir of John McCorckle, who was one of Quantrill's top scouts. It was dictated late in his life, so his timelines are a little fuzzy in places, but his overall recollection is fine. You can read the works of scholars like Albert Castel, James Goodrich, and many others who write knowledgeably about the guerrillas and who will list their primary sources in their chapter notes, footnotes, and bibliographies. You will have to purchase some of these or find them in a public library. From those references, you can track down the primary material. It's all out there.I’d love to see some primary sources that describe guerrillas carry ten or more sidearms. I find this very interesting.
You can also do a Google image search for a number of the Missouri guerrillas. They enjoyed having their photos made. In a famous photo of a very young Jesse James, you can see a revolver in his hand and two more in his belt. You may assume he had more on his horse. In a very famous photo of George Maddox, you can see a revolver in each hand, one reversed in a holster, and one more tucked into his belt. You may assume he had more on his horse, too. Again, this stuff is not hard to find. It's only a few clicks away.
You're welcome!Patrick,
Thank you for your post #34! Much appreciated!
Regards,
Jim
So, I've given you a heck of a good starter kit of free reference material, but I'm not going to spoon feed the specific passages to you. If you want to see primary research, it isn't hard to find