Brass Napoleon Award French & Belgian Infantry arms of the American Civil War

Used to own a large bore French Dragoon Rifle (Fusil de Dragoon) as tag on it said.. It was all brass mounted and dated 67 which I assume was date of conversion. It was a shorter rifle.. comparable to a Model 1855 in length.. It had a Snyder like hinged breech and was a monstrous caliber.. I would say over .70 cal. What was that exactly? Unfortunately I sold it many years back .. It was my first period gun and memorable.

Those are the Tabatiere conversions that the French implemented in 1867 because the Chassepot production was not sufficient (and expensive) to equip all troops with it. And since they just watched Prussia demolish Austria with the Dryese in 1866, it was paramount to get as many breachloading rifle to the armed forces as fast as possible. Here are mine, 1857/67 Fusil, 1859/67 Carbine de Chasseur and a converted variant to smoothbore (built by me from parts). The bullet for mine is .732. See pic compare to .54

img_1550250469764.jpg

img_1550250469855.jpg

img_1550250469639.jpg
 
Thanks for making this thread, it's very helpful. I remember reading somewhere that a Union soldier remembered the Belgian rifle he had as being the worst he ever used. What problems were these rifles supposed to have suffered from?
 
Thanks for making this thread, it's very helpful. I remember reading somewhere that a Union soldier remembered the Belgian rifle he had as being the worst he ever used. What problems were these rifles supposed to have suffered from?
A lot of it was that they weren’t American made and many were older than their users. Many had already seen hard use. The manufacturer quality wasn’t up to the same standards as US made but most had served in the premier armies of Europe.

In short much of it was prejudice.
 
It sounds as if you may have had, as shown above, a French Tabiatere, a very rare and desirable rifled conversion today!
J.
Rifle was a 3 band and bayonet lug for an angular bayonet.. Gun was longer than the carbine shown and it had the front sight on the band as the carbine has. It was not as long as a Rifled Musket but definitely longer than the carbine shown.
 
Does anyone have any information on what the French paper cartridges were like for their Minie, pillar breech, and Delvigne rifles were like? Did Americans use these cartridges or were they able to make US style cartridges for the rifles?
 
Does anyone have any information on what the French paper cartridges were like for their Minie, pillar breech, and Delvigne rifles were like? Did Americans use these cartridges or were they able to make US style cartridges for the rifles?
The only time the construction of the cartridge is important for the loading is if you load with the paper. (like with the smoothbore M1842 or the way the british did with their enfields)
Since the Americans did not do this with rifled firearms and only poured the powder and rammed the bullet it should not have been an issue.
 
Just won this beauty at Auction over the weekend. Belgian copy of a Mle1859 carbine de Chasseur by G. Schopen. I assume it is a copy of a 1859, I think some of the 1840s carbine variants looked the same except did not have steel barrel. Have not received it yet, just auction photos for now. With the bayonet and what appears to be original ramrod could not pass on this. I am guessing this one was part of one of the deliveries to the Union.
43.jpg
43-4.jpg
43-1.jpg
 
Just won this beauty at Auction over the weekend. Belgian copy of a Mle1859 carbine de Chasseur by G. Schopen. I assume it is a copy of a 1859, I think some of the 1840s carbine variants looked the same except did not have steel barrel. Have not received it yet, just auction photos for now. With the bayonet and what appears to be original ramrod could not pass on this. I am guessing this one was part of one of the deliveries to the Union.
...
I always thought those were great looking weapons, but I can never get used to that screwed up looking hammer!:sick:

Kevin Dally
 
I always thought those were great looking weapons, but I can never get used to that screwed up looking hammer!:sick:

Kevin Dally
As a note to the hammer. W/ the French/Belgian arms one of the complaints from US troops was that a man could not use the sights until the hammer was at full cock making the drill order very important: "Ready (full cock) , aim... Said soldier said they had fewer issues of men forgetting to bring the weapon to full cock than they did w/ the smoothbores that the French & Belgian arms had replaced.
 
Well my Belgian Carbine De Chasseur came in. Beautiful condition except the fact that it has smooth bore. Still has it's original long range sight. Why would anyone bother to smoothbore a rifle and keep it otherwise in original form with long range sight and bayonet lug? Even more interesting, the barrel is very thick, much thicker then the rifled barrel on my French 1859/67 Carbine de Chasseur.

Makes me almost wonder if this thing was ever rifled in the first place as thick as that barrel is. The bayonet that came with the Belgian fits it perfectly but is too big for the French 1859/67 and loose on barrel.

20190316_165712.jpg


20190316_165831.jpg


20190316_170717.jpg

Love the French back action design.
20190316_171347.jpg


20190316_165734.jpg


20190316_165857.jpg


20190316_170825.jpg
 
Thank for all the wonderful details and history.

Question regarding the trigger assembly for the 1842. Mine had a makeshift pin holding the trigger in place through the wood, and it does not have the two sides with small screw to keep it in place. Don't even see any evidence it was there in the first place. Below is a pic of my 1842 trigger next to my 1853 trigger assemblies that have the trigger secured with screw.

Did the 1842 use different method of securing trigger or was my trigger assembly butchered for some bizarre reason? View attachment 212181
A bit late, but .... This may be of Belgian manufacture. I have a Liege contract Enfield Cavalry Carbine (converted to Snider later - by Liege). Unlike British Enfields, the trigger is secured/pivoted with a pin through the stock, not on the trigger guard. Like your M42, there is no bridle for the trigger pin on the trigger guard, just a socket for the tang bolt. I suspect it was just the local practice to do so. It still works.
 
Back
Top