The Sunken Fact: Lincoln Instigated the War

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I see, if the Confederates accepted Lincoln's carrot there wouldn't have been a war, but didn't the fact they didn't accept the carrot make war inevitable no matter who shot first?
Thanks for your response.
Who fired the first shot?
 
Thanks for your response.
Who fired the first shot?

Does it really matter who fired the first shot? Is it your opinion that the Federals wouldn't have fired the first shot had the Confederates not? How else was Lincoln going to keep his union intact once the Confederates refused his carrot? A better argument would be that the Confederate government cautiously watch and waited and allowed the Federals to fire first or threaten an invasion. In any case, the war was inevitable.
 
I suppose that Davis forgot Lincoln's past as a fighter. Tested frontiersman against effete aristocrat. No Contest.

After one particular scrap where he defeated a man with a single toss, Abe turned to the angry mob that had gathered to watch the fight, and challenged the lot of them by loudly declaring “Any of you want to try it, come on and whet your horns!”
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Is this less volatile people? See post #1006
 
Is this less volatile people? See post #1006
Lincoln fought to save a life of a Native American in that case. Normally he was not throwing folks around. Davis, on the other hand, fought challenged men to duels on several occasions. Dueling was common in the South in the upper classes and just bare fist fighting in the lower classes.
 
Lincoln fought to save a life of a Native American in that case. Normally he was not throwing folks around. Davis, on the other hand, fought challenged men to duels on several occasions. Dueling was common in the South in the upper classes and just bare fist fighting in the lower classes.
JG - I enjoy your posts. All in good fun, but wasn't fist fighting common in the north as well? New York Zouave's?
 
IMHO the real objective of Texas v White was to preclude that opinion from becoming law. We concentrate so much on the secession part of Texas v White we forget or ignore what was going on. Folks were intending to dismember the South. Texas v White says they cannot.


I agree. The question, IMO, had not really been settled during the war. Only Lincoln's political adroitness, kept the various elements of oppositions to his policies from gaining a real foothold with a coherent opposing policy in Congress.
 
And you have been told many times the order to either “with peace or destroy” Sumter was issued before President Jefferson was appointed. He passed the order on I am sure. And it was deliberate as could be whe the Battleships showed up at the front door after the peace commissioners were ordered home.


Have your even read Davis' and Beauregard's final communications before their attack on Ft. Sumter?
 
I agree. The question, IMO, had not really been settled during the war. Only Lincoln's political adroitness, kept the various elements of oppositions to his policies from gaining a real foothold with a coherent opposing policy in Congress.
Good point about Lincoln.
 
I always thought it was the founding fathers that started the ACW by not making all men equal while they had the chance , How many countless lives could have been saved if it wasn't for a few greedy men who wanted to protect their wealth and property.

You could blame either North or South but in truth the foundations were laid in 1776 and it took 90 years to boil over imho.
 
Was the war inevitable? Thomas Jefferson talked about a fire bell ringing in the night. As a southerner and a slaveholder, even he could not convince his peers to end slavery peacefully. I think the easily-offended code of honor in the south made violence more acceptable there than in the North. Someone referenced Rhett Bulter being challenged to a duel in the movie Gone with the Wind for pointing out the disparity in resources between North and South. Fiction, I know, but it does suggest the difference.
 
Was the war inevitable? Thomas Jefferson talked about a fire bell ringing in the night. As a southerner and a slaveholder, even he could not convince his peers to end slavery peacefully. I think the easily-offended code of honor in the south made violence more acceptable there than in the North. Someone referenced Rhett Bulter being challenged to a duel in the movie Gone with the Wind for pointing out the disparity in resources between North and South. Fiction, I know, but it does suggest the difference.

And yet Jefferson did not free his slaves talk is cheap without positive action and for a man who owned over 500 slaves I find his ramblings to be both hypocritical and bizarre.
 
Does it really matter who fired the first shot? Is it your opinion that the Federals wouldn't have fired the first shot had the Confederates not? How else was Lincoln going to keep his union intact once the Confederates refused his carrot? A better argument would be that the Confederate government cautiously watch and waited and allowed the Federals to fire first or threaten an invasion. In any case, the war was inevitable.

War would not have happened if our southern friends didn’t choose to rebel after a free, legal election sent the country down a path of limiting slavery.
 
I always thought it was the founding fathers that started the ACW by not making all men equal while they had the chance , How many countless lives could have been saved if it wasn't for a few greedy men who wanted to protect their wealth and property.

You could blame either North or South but in truth the foundations were laid in 1776 and it took 90 years to boil over imho.

I suppose that’s true, but one could argue despite that shortcoming - because some wanted emancipation - the ground work was also laid for eventual emancipation at that time as well. And I consider that to be a positive thing.
 
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