Who Was Considered American During the Civil War?

wausaubob

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Also, in that era, Bruce Catton's view on the Civil War, in which the courage of the belligerents was emphasized and the causes for which they fought were de-emphasized, was prevalent.
Within 20 years the involvement of blacks and immigrants would be emphasized and modernity of the political positions staked out the United States army in the wake of the Civil War would be reappraised.
 
Were Tecumseh, Osceola, Geramino, or Sitting Bull great Americans? If so, Lee could be considered one. Or perhaps they are all great and Americans, but not great Americans?

Tecumseh considered the Americans his enemy and allied himself with the British to fight the Americans in the War of 1812. The Indians of Old Northwest and Ohio country considered the United States their enemy, not the “White Man” in general, and were well aware of the differences between the British, French, Spanish and...Americans. Unlike the Southern Rebels he was never a citizen of the United States nor did he ever become reconciled to it or accept its authority and was he was killed by the Americans at the Battle of the Thames where Proctor’s British and Indian army was defeated by Harrison.

I suppose much the same goes for Osceola who was part British by blood and lived in a rather cosmopolitan society where the Creeks and Seminoles (who were originally Creeks) were under strong British and Spanish cultural and political influence. And they knew full well the Americans were the enemy.

As Geronimo and Sitting Bull both were subjected and lived under the authority of the United States one might (doubtfully IMO) claim them as Americans but I doubt they ever thought of themselves as Americans. And as Bee mentioned they weren’t citizens. And unlike Sitting Bull who lived on a reservation Geronimo was kept captive by the United States Army the rest of his life after his surrender; in Florida, then Alabama and finally at Fort Sill. Oh, he wasn’t locked in a cell at Fort Sill and was pretty much alllowed the run of the place but a captive he was.
 
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Nope -- Indians were not given US citizenship until June 2, 1924.

By that logic prior to 1868 there were no great African-Americans because they were denied citizenship.

Was nobody prior to 1776/1783 a great American?

Surely one can be an American without being an American citizen. Are immigrants who are not yet citizens not yet Americans either?
 
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Was nobody prior to 1776/1783 a great American?

technically: YES, they were british subjects - how about great proto americans

do we need to confine it to us-citizens? tecumseh could be a great american if we didn't - america is vast, but then some guy borne in (what is now) canada in 1735 is an american

difficult decisions :D
 
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Indians were Americans, the Original Americans. U.S. Citizenship or Not.
Using a term like "American" implies some type of cohesive bond that draws people together into some sort of collective bond, in the same way we call people who live in Germany German . This is a relatively recent construct, for Germany was not united until the 19thc. I am not entirely sure that all the tribes in what we call America had any such cohesive bond. This, however, is straying away from the topic of this thread.
 
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Indians were Americans, the Original Americans. U.S. Citizenship or Not.
Tell that to Andrew Jackson.

that's one way to see it

@diane, @Bee did you guys ever consider yourselves americans (before 1776 or otherwise)? or is this a racist remark to be able to tell you kin to behave themselves?
 
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Because the topic of the thread is not about Native Americans. It is about Lee and Eisenhower, neither of whom claimed to be Native American to my knowledge. That makes this discussion off topic. If you want to continue this discussion, I suggest you start a new thread.
Well, Indians have nothing to do with Ike's views on Robert E Lee

Let me reiterate the manner in which I raised the question of Native Americans:

1. Native Americans fought against the US while being residents of the US, preferring the independence of their tribes.

2. Lee fought against the US while being a resident of the US, prefering the independence of the CSA.

If Native Americans can be considered great Americans then Confederates can be considered great Americans.

"I am glad to see one real American here."
"We are all Americans."
-Lee & Ely Parker at Appomattox
 
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Let me reiterate the manner in which I raised the question of Native Americans:

1. Native Americans fought against the US while being residents of the US, preferring the independence of their tribes.

2. Lee fought against the US while being a resident of the US, prefering the independence of the CSA.

If Native Americans can be considered great Americans then Confederates can be considered great Americans.

"I am glad to see one real American here."
"We are all Americans."
-Lee & Ely Parker at Appomattox

They were on the continent but they were considered to be separate nations from the United States. Hence the treaties.
 
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Let me reiterate the manner in which I raised the question of Native Americans:

1. Native Americans fought against the US while being residents of the US, preferring the independence of their tribes.

2. Lee fought against the US while being a resident of the US, prefering the independence of the CSA.

If Native Americans can be considered great Americans then Confederates can be considered great Americans.

"I am glad to see one real American here."
"We are all Americans."
-Lee & Ely Parker at Appomattox

Thanks, Joshism, for that. :smile:

Native Americans were never residents of the United States, you see. The United States were intruders who felt they had a right to everything because they could make productive use of it - unlike the people already making productive use of it.

The problem with comparing Natives with Confederates is this: the Confederates once made an agreement to form a union with other American states and therefore were Americans. They differed from their companions, however. Indians were never part of that deal.

At the time Eli Parker said his famous quote, being an American was the necessary thing to accept. If not, you were a 'wild' Indian subject to whatever military or legal action was necessary to corral you. Parker continued to maintain his Indian identity and place with his people, but outside there he dressed an acted like an American. Lots of that - Indian at home, white everywhere else!

There's also another oddity - the term American doesn't always mean a citizen of the United States.
 
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