cash
Brev. Brig. Gen'l
- Joined
- Feb 20, 2005
- Location
- Right here.
Here's another view.
Okay, well I'm still not quite sure about that rock, as I don't know who named it and why. But I'm just going to make the assumptions and you can correct me. And maybe correct me about other things for this might be controversial...
Here's a photo of the rock. It's on the left side of the 20th Maine's line as you're facing south.
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I guess the question is do you think this rock is the rock on Oates's map and on the GNMP blueprint? Or just one not the other?
Well he certainly was mixed up about left and right, and I also wonder if he went that far North. That rock seems very far north to be his middle.I think that rock is the one annotated on Oates' map. As to whether or not Oates is right, I don't have an opinion right now. Oates believed it, but then again, he was under great stress at the time and this was many years after the fact.
Well he certainly was mixed up about left and right, and I also wonder if he went that far North. That rock seems very far north to be his middle.
Chamberlain gets a lot of blame for disagreeing with Oates, but frankly I find his statements confusing and very easy to disagree with. I notice a lot of historians just taking these "drove back Chamberlain's right" statements as facts, but then you look at maps made by historians and none seem to show that they believe that. Not even Oates map would agree.
But even if Oates' map is right, I still don't see proof that that was the rock his brother was carried behind.
So I guess its free and clear for the Chamberlain monument then.
I'd buy that, but for that spot to be where Oates colors were was the part that I wondered at.I can see them reaching the rock because in their flanking movements they wrapped around the hill partially, and Chamberlain had to bend his line back in a sort of "V" shape. The boulder is just inside the 20th Maine's left flank line. It's not outside the realm of possibility that in a momentary advance just past the line, the confederates were able to get there.
I'll be visiting Gettysburg for the first time next month and was eagerly hoping to visit a monument dedicated to Oates and his troops. I'm surprised to find that there is no monument to those brave Alabamians. After looking in my copy of "Gettysburg Requiem," a biography of Oates penned in 2006 by Glenn LaFantasie, I was even more surprised to find that Chamberlin used backchannels to object to a monument being placed while, at the same time, duplicitly corresponding with Oates that he welcomed a statue being erected.
This is one of my favorite monuments on the battlefield...the others being the Louisiana monument on West Confederate and the 90th Pennsylvania monument.
If any of these unplaced monuments were to go up, I worry that they'd never be as good as these old ones.This is one of my favorite monuments on the battlefield...the others being the Louisiana monument on West Confederate and the 90th Pennsylvania monument.
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I can see them reaching the rock because in their flanking movements they wrapped around the hill partially, and Chamberlain had to bend his line back in a sort of "V" shape. The boulder is just inside the 20th Maine's left flank line. It's not outside the realm of possibility that in a momentary advance just past the line, the confederates were able to get there.
Tom Desjardin says no, can't even be remotely Confederate inside union lines.Oooh I just had a great idea! So Oates' monument is not allowed by the rules... and Chamberlain's has apparently been approved... so on a Chamberlain statue have depicted at the base a Maine soldier grasping Oates' flag and getting stabbed in the face, or some such scene, maybe throw Oates brother in there, and on the side facing Oates' line inscribe that side with what Oates wanted...
To the Memory of Lt. John A. Oates
and his gallant Comrades
who fell here July 2nd, 1863.
The 15th Ala. Regt., over 400 strong,
reached this spot, but for
lack of support had to retire.
Lt. Col. Feagin lost a leg
Capts. Brainard and Ellison
Lts. Oates and Copy and
33 men were killed, 76 wounded
and 84 captured.
And on the other say some such similar thing to the Maine boys.
Tom Desjardin says no, can't even be remotely Confederate inside union lines.
Ah well, thought I might have found a loophole for you guys.
Oh cool thanks! I'm so easily distracted that I got pulled from this research quest into a discussion on the Compromise of 1877. But this is really great!Another view from Chamberlain Avenue looking up at the Left Flank Marker:
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Another view from the 20th Maine Monument looking northward toward Oates Rock:
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20th Maine Left Flank Marker on the right, Oates Rock on the left, just to the right of the larger trees on the left side of the photo.
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I will say though, looking at your pictures, any of these rocks could be the rock his brother was carried behind. Especially the ones as you look up from Chamberlain Ave. I seriously doubt it was the one named Oates rock. That would be right on the front lines and not offer any protection to someone who was wounded.Another view from Chamberlain Avenue looking up at the Left Flank Marker:
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Another view from the 20th Maine Monument looking northward toward Oates Rock:
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20th Maine Left Flank Marker on the right, Oates Rock on the left, just to the right of the larger trees on the left side of the photo.
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I will say though, looking at your pictures, any of these rocks could be the rock his brother was carried behind. Especially the ones as you look up from Chamberlain Ave. I seriously doubt it was the one named Oates rock. That would be right on the front lines and not offer any protection to someone who was wounded.
Yes, but if you look at his letters and what I say about them, even though he puts it on his map, he never acts very attached to it nor mentions his brother in connection to it. http://www.joshualawrencechamberlain.com/oatesletters.phpI was struck by that as well. The one identified as Oates Rock does correspond to Oates' map.